{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":24.9,"endTime":25.68,"body":"Welcome back to the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":25.96,"endTime":27.44,"body":"Vacation in User Space podcast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":27.8,"endTime":30.16,"body":"This is the very first episode that we are recording in English."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":30.24,"endTime":33.02,"body":"And while I was just telling the name of the podcast,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":33.14,"endTime":37.44,"body":"I figured out that the joke isn't that funny in English than it is in German."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":37.64,"endTime":38.9,"body":"But I think it's still okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":39.68,"endTime":40.5,"body":"I think it's cool."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":40.82,"endTime":40.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":41.38,"endTime":42.88,"body":"And I mean, we managed to get a great URL."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":43.28,"endTime":44.32,"body":"So, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":45.3,"endTime":48.62,"body":"The reason because this episode is recorded in English is that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":48.8,"endTime":51.96,"body":"I have been in the OpenSUSE conference 2025 in Nuremberg,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":51.98,"endTime":53.86,"body":"and I'm thrilled being joined by Neil Gompa."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":54.28,"endTime":54.68,"body":"Hi."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":55.78,"endTime":59.02,"body":"Lovely that we finally found a way to record a podcast together."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":59.1,"endTime":61.2,"body":"We tried to do this for three years by now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":61.3,"endTime":62.22,"body":"Oh my gosh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":62.66,"endTime":67.72,"body":"We've intersected at OpenSUSE Conference and Red Hat Summit and SUSECon"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":68.32,"endTime":71.56,"body":"somehow over the course of three years and still not managed to do this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":71.88,"endTime":74.38,"body":"And I mean, it's the third time we see each other this year."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":74.64,"endTime":74.74,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":74.74,"endTime":75.92,"body":"So that's very nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":75.92,"endTime":76.68,"body":"That means it's fate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":77.22,"endTime":78.4,"body":"Yeah, finally, finally."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":78.94,"endTime":79.06,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":79.84,"endTime":82.88,"body":"So let's assume there are some people that have been living under a stone"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":83.02,"endTime":84.96,"body":"for the last couple of years and never heard your name."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":85.08,"endTime":86.68,"body":"you're part of various Floss communities,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":87.04,"endTime":89.24,"body":"so things like OpenSUSE, Fedora, Asahi Linux."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":89.9,"endTime":90.4,"body":"Did I miss something?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":91.08,"endTime":91.38,"body":"Let's see."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":91.52,"endTime":96.22,"body":"So it's hard to say what I'm not part--"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":96.52,"endTime":98.48,"body":"it's easier to say what I'm not part of in Fedora,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":98.62,"endTime":101.22,"body":"which is mostly like a lot of the marketing type stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":101.3,"endTime":105.46,"body":"So I'm in a lot of the engineering parts of it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":105.5,"endTime":107.94,"body":"Like I'm part of the Fedora engineering steering committee."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":108.34,"endTime":113.18,"body":"I lead the Fedora Asahi SIG as well as the KDE SIG."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":113.42,"endTime":121.84,"body":"And I'm part, I founded the Rust SIG and I'm a member of the Python SIG and I helped with Go and a bunch of other things here and there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":122.04,"endTime":128.179,"body":"Like so, and I, and I helped bootstrap the Cosmic SIG and, and yeah, so like the Cosmic desktop stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":130.04,"endTime":132.96,"body":"Also the Miracle SIG and a few others like this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":133.26,"endTime":133.44,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":134.22,"endTime":134.98,"body":"There's a lot in there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":134.98,"endTime":137.36,"body":"So that's Fedora for OpenSUSE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":137.58,"endTime":141.42,"body":"I think, you know, the last four years, this year's the first year that I'm not on the board in a while."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":141.48,"endTime":144.94,"body":"Like I was on the board from 21 until this year."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":145.88,"endTime":155.34,"body":"And I also helped start the, I helped with the creation of the OpenSUSE moderation team and formalized that structure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":155.98,"endTime":161.64,"body":"And also the OpenSUSE leap feature development process was me and Lubush's brainchild."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":161.68,"endTime":163.4,"body":"So we worked on it to create that process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":164.32,"endTime":169.98,"body":"And I'm a member of the OpenSUSE Heroes as well, although not currently active due to lack of time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":171.86,"endTime":175.78,"body":"And as for Asahi Linux, I'm a member of the board of directors for the Asahi Linux project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":176.14,"endTime":180.42,"body":"And I am the developer of the Fedora Asahi Remix."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":181.8,"endTime":187.1,"body":"And I also help upstream in the Asahi Linux project for Linux kernel reviews and stuff like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":187.24,"endTime":194.02,"body":"I'm essentially one of the reviewers\/maintainers of the Asahi Linux subsystem in the Linux kernel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":195.48,"endTime":199.04,"body":"Let's see. So that's OpenSUSE, Fedora, and Cyhe Linux."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":199.13,"endTime":201.34,"body":"And CentOS. I'm also in that project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":201.57,"endTime":204.22,"body":"I am the co-chair of the CentOS Hyperscale SIG,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":204.78,"endTime":210.54,"body":"which produces a derivative of CentOS Stream called CentOS Stream Hyperscale."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":210.67,"endTime":216.26,"body":"And that brings features that large enterprises want to use,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":216.31,"endTime":218.84,"body":"or any kind of large deployment of CentOS at scale."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":219.52,"endTime":225,"body":"We provide, you know, we bring the things that people use to do CentOS at scale out in the open."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":225.54,"endTime":231.08,"body":"And also bring ButterFS to Enterprise Linux, among other things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":232.02,"endTime":233.32,"body":"Let's see, what else do I do?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":234.38,"endTime":239.6,"body":"I've been a contributor to Ubuntu, Ubuntu, Lubuntu."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":241.44,"endTime":242.9,"body":"And I've done some stuff in Debian."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":243.6,"endTime":248,"body":"I did have a couple of things, I think, in Open Embedded, the Yachto project stuff at one point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":249.24,"endTime":252.36,"body":"contributed to RPM, DNF, Spacewalk, Uyuni."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":252.57,"endTime":253.58,"body":"Oh, yeah, of course you do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":253.81,"endTime":255.36,"body":"Your favorite project, Uyuni."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":255.52,"endTime":256.359,"body":"Yeah, right, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":257.38,"endTime":261.299,"body":"And I've done stuff in Satellite Form and Pulp."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":262.66,"endTime":264.22,"body":"Systems management is a passion of mine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":264.23,"endTime":266.78,"body":"I love systems management stuff, as well as the Linux desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":267.04,"endTime":269.68,"body":"So those, like, the do spaces, you tend to see me do a lot of stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":269.75,"endTime":271.58,"body":"And I have a Weyland protocol to my name, even."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":272.72,"endTime":273.36,"body":"For real?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":273.6,"endTime":274.12,"body":"Yeah, for real."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":274.4,"endTime":274.74,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":275.02,"endTime":278.44,"body":"I made a Weyland protocol and got it up into the project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":278.66,"endTime":281.24,"body":"And it was just released just a couple weeks ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":281.4,"endTime":282.12,"body":"And what is it doing?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":282.36,"endTime":283.32,"body":"It's a pointer warp."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":283.6,"endTime":291.12,"body":"So the ability for an application to request that the pointer be positioned in a part of the Windows coordinate space for the application."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":291.7,"endTime":291.88,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":292.42,"endTime":294.08,"body":"Anyway, I'm in a lot of things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":295.66,"endTime":296.38,"body":"Oh, yes, and I forgot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":296.82,"endTime":298.74,"body":"I'm also a member of KDE because KDE is the best."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":299.9,"endTime":303.2,"body":"Okay, finally we answered which desktop is the best of all of those."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":303.42,"endTime":310.06,"body":"Yeah, it's been the absolute, it's been obvious for 30 years. It's obviously KDE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":310.52,"endTime":311.18,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":311.38,"endTime":313.84,"body":"And I think actually next year is the 30th anniversary."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":314.46,"endTime":317.4,"body":"Right, exactly. What a coincidence."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":317.92,"endTime":318.04,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":319.34,"endTime":325.6,"body":"Yeah, awesome. I learned a lot. And some of the listeners might know your voice because you're also the co-host of the SudoShow podcast, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":325.7,"endTime":328.12,"body":"Right, where we talk about the business of open source."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":328.7,"endTime":334.9,"body":"And the idea is, you know, me as well as my co-host, Bill Shouten and Brandon Johnson,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":335.58,"endTime":340.26,"body":"we talk about different aspects of enterprise open source and things like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":340.7,"endTime":343.56,"body":"I tend to come from it from a more technical integrator point of view."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":344.06,"endTime":348.72,"body":"Bill tends to do a lot of this small business and specialized verticals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":349,"endTime":353.5,"body":"And then Brandon, you know, tends to talk about it from a large enterprise space."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":353.88,"endTime":367.44,"body":"And I think it's very fun when we get to go around and sit down and actually ramble about the cool things that are happening or the trends going on and then produce something that's like, hey, this is some useful advice about how you can think about things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":368.44,"endTime":368.82,"body":"Yeah, awesome."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":369.78,"endTime":374.96,"body":"Of course, we will link some of the six and, of course, also the Sudoshow podcast in the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":375,"endTime":378.44,"body":"So in case you want to check this out, feel free to have a look at the links."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":379.34,"endTime":381.38,"body":"And, yeah, today we're talking about the OpenSUSE conference."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":381.64,"endTime":385.66,"body":"So we are here at the Thursday of OpenSUSE conference on Saturday."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":386.22,"endTime":387.76,"body":"All the sessions have passed by now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":388.22,"endTime":392.16,"body":"Yeah, we're pretty much, I guess we're just close or too near the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":392.46,"endTime":393.2,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":394.22,"endTime":396.62,"body":"So we're sitting here and watching people leave the conference."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":397.18,"endTime":399.98,"body":"And for those who never heard about the OpenSUSE conference,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":400.36,"endTime":402.78,"body":"that's actually the annual OpenSUSE community event"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":402.92,"endTime":405.66,"body":"that brings people from around the world together, like us too."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":405.9,"endTime":406.12,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":406.42,"endTime":407.42,"body":"And we can meet and collaborate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":407.78,"endTime":410.52,"body":"There are talks, workshops, and of course, also hack sessions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":411.2,"endTime":412.4,"body":"And how often did you attend?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":412.79,"endTime":415,"body":"So my first OpenSUSE conference was actually in 2019."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":415.83,"endTime":415.92,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":416.09,"endTime":420.76,"body":"And it was back then it was at the end of May during the Memorial Day weekend,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":420.97,"endTime":425.82,"body":"US Memorial Day weekend, which actually makes it easy to not have to ask for vacation to go."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":427.41,"endTime":431,"body":"But it was also right after Red Hat Summit, which is at the top of the month at that time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":431.53,"endTime":435.98,"body":"So like I had Red Hat Summit at then, and I think that was actually the first time we met was then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":436.54,"endTime":439.86,"body":"and then opened to the conference at the end of the month,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":439.93,"endTime":442.04,"body":"which actually, first time I ever presented,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":442.16,"endTime":444.44,"body":"that first time I also presented about DNF."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":445.5,"endTime":446.94,"body":"I think I was like a leading speak"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":447.26,"endTime":448.26,"body":"right after the opening remarks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":448.33,"endTime":449.48,"body":"It was like I was right afterwards."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":450,"endTime":450.48,"body":"That's an honor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":450.94,"endTime":451.02,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":451.69,"endTime":453.36,"body":"And also I talked about Pager back then too."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":455.05,"endTime":457.96,"body":"And yeah, so like that was my first one in 2019."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":458.68,"endTime":460.8,"body":"Of course, 2020 didn't happen in the real world."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":460.85,"endTime":461.78,"body":"It was in the virtual world"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":461.95,"endTime":463.78,"body":"that was combined with the LibreOffice conference."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":464.48,"endTime":465.72,"body":"2021 was also virtual."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":466.38,"endTime":469.4,"body":"And then, of course, in 22, it came back in person, and I've been here since."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":469.68,"endTime":474.64,"body":"So I guess that's like three, four, five, six years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":475.34,"endTime":475.76,"body":"That's nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":476.32,"endTime":477.56,"body":"For me, it's the first time being here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":477.64,"endTime":480.1,"body":"So I don't know whether I did not attend in the last couple of years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":481.12,"endTime":481.4,"body":"But I figured out..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":481.4,"endTime":482.36,"body":"Well, you have to keep coming."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":482.66,"endTime":483.46,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":484.24,"endTime":485.36,"body":"Especially since you're so close."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":485.62,"endTime":487.64,"body":"I have to jump across a version for this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":488.14,"endTime":489.06,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":489.6,"endTime":491.94,"body":"For me, it's just a drive of three hours."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":492.42,"endTime":497.66,"body":"But finally, I managed to participate this year and also was able to host a session."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":498.36,"endTime":499.64,"body":"And it was taking place in Nuremberg."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":499.72,"endTime":501.52,"body":"And yeah, how did you like it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":501.58,"endTime":504.68,"body":"Do you have any personal highlights to share for the last couple of days?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":504.94,"endTime":505.7,"body":"What did you like most?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":506.74,"endTime":508.42,"body":"I like the fact that it was mostly outside."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":509.02,"endTime":509.36,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":510.7,"endTime":513.099,"body":"Inside, in the venue itself, it's very hot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":513.58,"endTime":514.479,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":514.659,"endTime":516.68,"body":"So there's no air conditioning, I'm afraid."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":517.74,"endTime":520.7,"body":"I saw some machinery on the ceiling that looked like an air conditioning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":520.96,"endTime":522.4,"body":"But unfortunately, it was not active."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":522.56,"endTime":523.64,"body":"It wasn't active at all."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":523.82,"endTime":526.48,"body":"So yeah, that's what I also did between the sessions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":527.16,"endTime":529.28,"body":"Go out for a couple of minutes to get some fresh air."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":529.28,"endTime":530.5,"body":"I miss when it was at the end of May,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":530.64,"endTime":532.72,"body":"because it's much cooler in May than it is in June."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":532.92,"endTime":534.2,"body":"End of June is much hotter."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":534.56,"endTime":534.88,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":536.419,"endTime":540.66,"body":"And yeah, so I really like this event,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":540.94,"endTime":544,"body":"because it's an opportunity to really see all the people"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":546.619,"endTime":548.36,"body":"and learn about interesting things,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":548.62,"endTime":552.2,"body":"and gain a new perspective on stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":552.48,"endTime":554.26,"body":"So it's always good in that respect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":554.38,"endTime":555.98,"body":"And I think that's true for a lot of conferences."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":556.2,"endTime":557.34,"body":"But this one in particular, I think,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":558.74,"endTime":560.7,"body":"it feels more like a celebration of the year"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":560.96,"endTime":564.14,"body":"rather than like, OK, here we are."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":564.28,"endTime":564.96,"body":"Let's go do things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":565.38,"endTime":568.28,"body":"And I like the celebratory aspect of it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":568.68,"endTime":568.88,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":569.58,"endTime":569.9,"body":"Same for me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":570.56,"endTime":573.46,"body":"I'm a big fan of those community events because they are--"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":574.42,"endTime":577.24,"body":"I don't want to say less serious because they are serious,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":577.42,"endTime":582.64,"body":"but they are more open to non-enterprise-y topics and people,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":583.28,"endTime":586.2,"body":"and it makes things easier, getting to know new people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":586.54,"endTime":588.4,"body":"And I would say it's not that big."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":588.9,"endTime":592.36,"body":"Maybe I would guess something around 200 people maybe"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":592.42,"endTime":593.14,"body":"that joined the conference."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":593.72,"endTime":595.86,"body":"It's more like family meetup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":596.08,"endTime":598.7,"body":"I think I was told like 250 or something like that,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":598.94,"endTime":600.34,"body":"so it's decent size."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":600.74,"endTime":601.44,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":601.64,"endTime":605.32,"body":"So it's not too big, so you can gain new contacts quite easily,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":605.66,"endTime":612.56,"body":"And you're not that afraid of talking to people because it's a small family size."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":613.02,"endTime":614.52,"body":"And everyone else is equally afraid."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":614.58,"endTime":615.16,"body":"So it works out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":615.3,"endTime":615.98,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":616.42,"endTime":621.18,"body":"But for me, also meeting persons is a highlight for me as well because the talks are recorded."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":621.62,"endTime":622.32,"body":"Most of them are."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":622.92,"endTime":626.82,"body":"They could be available at mediaccc.de when this episode comes around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":627.5,"endTime":629,"body":"So we'll also link that in the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":629.96,"endTime":634.02,"body":"And yeah, so I try to attend sessions when I want to ask some questions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":634.32,"endTime":637.46,"body":"but it's more talking to people that you do not see that often."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":638.02,"endTime":638.94,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":639.09,"endTime":644.4,"body":"And especially for me, because I live in the United States and the East Coast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":644.98,"endTime":649.34,"body":"And that means I don't really see anyone in the open source space"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":649.47,"endTime":651.5,"body":"unless I go to conferences in the first place."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":652.16,"endTime":658.02,"body":"So for me, it's an opportunity to refresh those community connections"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":658.33,"endTime":660.44,"body":"in a way that you can't really do any other way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":661.44,"endTime":662.04,"body":"Exactly that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":663.06,"endTime":666.62,"body":"So we collected some topics that are quite memorable from the conference."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":667.14,"endTime":673.62,"body":"And for the first topic that I wrote down, this sounds a little bit like we would talk about Red Hat Summit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":673.92,"endTime":680.42,"body":"So I would say one of the biggest trends in the last couple of months are bootable containers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":680.49,"endTime":682.36,"body":"And of course, this is also happening at SUSE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":682.81,"endTime":686.56,"body":"And there was a utility presented that is called Container Snap."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":687.72,"endTime":692.14,"body":"And that looks a little bit like maybe the real image mode of boot C."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":692.46,"endTime":702.02,"body":"It's in CLI written in Go, and it combines OCI container images with the OpenSUSE TU kit for transactional OS updates and Podman ButterFS volume."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":702.21,"endTime":704.32,"body":"So that's quite new, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":704.94,"endTime":708.02,"body":"I'm not sure that this is also used at RAL image mode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":708.03,"endTime":711.14,"body":"I think it's mainly XFS and a different approach."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":711.78,"endTime":730.68,"body":"Yeah, so the container snap stuff is pretty interesting because it provides, it basically provides an alternative to the way transactional update typically works, which is you do, let me take a step back."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":731.36,"endTime":734.58,"body":"Container snap and traditional transactional update."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":734.82,"endTime":736.12,"body":"Wow, I'm using the word traditional already."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":738.26,"endTime":743.12,"body":"The core difference between them is whether you do server-side composition or client-side composition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":743.32,"endTime":746.44,"body":"And what I mean by that is when you do traditional transactional update,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":747.1,"endTime":752.34,"body":"you are doing the same things you did with a regular OpenSUSE system,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":752.82,"endTime":755.64,"body":"except you're doing it pseudo-offline."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":756.32,"endTime":761.1,"body":"And that is by we create a ButterFS snapshot of the system,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":761.72,"endTime":762.94,"body":"do the actions in the snapshot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":763.6,"endTime":766.22,"body":"If everything is validated to be okay in the snapshot,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":766.48,"endTime":768.26,"body":"then we set the system to boot from that,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":768.7,"endTime":769.7,"body":"and then reboot the system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":770.12,"endTime":772.98,"body":"And that's pseudo offline because it's not actually"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":773.3,"endTime":775.04,"body":"touching the running system, but you're"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":775.06,"endTime":776.48,"body":"doing it while the system is running."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":777.14,"endTime":781.42,"body":"So but when you do it with container snap,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":782.44,"endTime":785.62,"body":"this pseudo offline step actually is done remotely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":786.24,"endTime":790.24,"body":"So you do this inside of whatever process you choose"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":790.32,"endTime":791.6,"body":"to make an OCI archive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":792.74,"endTime":794.82,"body":"So whether you can use Kiwi, the image build tool,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":795.36,"endTime":800.24,"body":"or you can use a container file, or some other way of doing it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":800.66,"endTime":804.02,"body":"You can produce an OCI artifact, an OCI archive,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":804.88,"endTime":807.88,"body":"that can then be imported by ContainerSnap."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":808.45,"endTime":813.76,"body":"And ContainerSnap will then open it up using Podman."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":814.47,"endTime":816.1,"body":"Well, actually, ContainerSnap itself"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":816.42,"endTime":818.86,"body":"uses container storage module from Podman"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":819.22,"endTime":823.8,"body":"to then export it out to a Butterfest subvolume."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":824.38,"endTime":826.64,"body":"And then it uses it to boot the system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":827.3,"endTime":829.82,"body":"So that's, you can see where the similarities are,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":829.85,"endTime":831.38,"body":"but you can also see where the difference is, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":831.43,"endTime":834.14,"body":"The core difference is you're doing the thing directly on the system"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":834.37,"endTime":836.96,"body":"versus you're doing it somewhere else and then pulling it down to your system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":837.36,"endTime":837.72,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":838.9,"endTime":842.7,"body":"And I mean, some of the other new topics that I heard of in the last days"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":842.9,"endTime":845.08,"body":"is things like Systemd soft reboot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":845.46,"endTime":845.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":845.83,"endTime":849.62,"body":"I know that this was introduced or there was in Dishkarsen last year"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":849.77,"endTime":851.8,"body":"by Leonard P\u00f6ttering, I think, or maybe two years ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":851.92,"endTime":852.28,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":852.5,"endTime":859.64,"body":"And I think combining this would also be interesting because you can do updating things without restarting the whole system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":860.46,"endTime":862.76,"body":"Well, for servers, it's a..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":871.56,"endTime":872.02,"body":"That's nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":872.2,"endTime":874.9,"body":"So we see a bus here parking while we're talking."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":879.48,"endTime":881.38,"body":"So, what was I talking about?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":881.44,"endTime":884.68,"body":"We were talking about SystemD software reboot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":884.74,"endTime":885.12,"body":"Oh, yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":885.72,"endTime":889.5,"body":"So the idea for being able to use SystemD software reboot is that in server environments,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":889.56,"endTime":894.78,"body":"you're typically dealing with systems that take a long time to do a full system reset."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":896.24,"endTime":904.8,"body":"And back when I worked on physical servers a bunch, we were waiting 5, 10 minutes for the firmware to get through everything before we got to the operating system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":905.36,"endTime":910.88,"body":"So it's very, very tempting to be able to skip that part when you need to just essentially refresh the operating system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":911.54,"endTime":916.96,"body":"So I think like soft reboots can work a number of ways, but I think the most common way I think people are talking about is by using k-exec."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":917.26,"endTime":917.36,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":917.62,"endTime":922.34,"body":"So you have the kernel exec a new kernel operating environment and do a handoff and all those things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":923.899,"endTime":932.12,"body":"It's a little fiddly, but I think that if people start really using it more, we might actually get the kinks worked out more for that and that process could become more reliable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":933,"endTime":946.22,"body":"What I think we'll see from this thing is really just if all updates wind up being done requiring a reboot, it's going to start becoming more important to make reboots faster."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":946.56,"endTime":946.64,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":947.56,"endTime":951.2,"body":"And so I think that's why this is starting to be explored and such like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":951.82,"endTime":955.4,"body":"And you mentioned the rel image mode, boot C stuff, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":955.46,"endTime":959.76,"body":"So boot C differs from container snap in two keyways."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":960.26,"endTime":967.62,"body":"The first key way is that it's actually still got our PMOS tree inside, you know, in the center of the beast, as it were."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":968.9,"endTime":975.66,"body":"But the second key way that it's different is that it is not actually an OCI."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":976.9,"endTime":984.06,"body":"Instead of using ButterFS to do the thing that set up the file system, what they do is you create an OCI in the archive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":986.1,"endTime":998.66,"body":"And when you are turning it into something that you boot from, it synthesizes, it creates all the extended attributes and all that stuff and stores it in a metadata volume with FSFarity using EeroFS."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":999.09,"endTime":1012.12,"body":"And so you have the EeroFS metadata and you have the OCI data and then you use this ComposeFS thing to unify them together as a uniform read-only file system mount."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1014.82,"endTime":1022.66,"body":"This technique essentially means that there is actually no way to do a read\/write system out of boot C."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1023.36,"endTime":1028.3,"body":"Container Snap, because of its architecture, inherits some of the pluses\/minuses,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1028.48,"endTime":1031.819,"body":"depending on your point of view of how this works."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1032.4,"endTime":1034.48,"body":"And that is because it's exported as the Butterfest volume,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1034.66,"endTime":1037.68,"body":"and then all the attributes and extended attributes are restored to the Butterfest volume,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1039.28,"endTime":1042.04,"body":"you can--and the Butterfest volume will be created read-only by default."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1042.339,"endTime":1048.96,"body":"But you can just change that, and you can go back to being a traditional OpenSUSE system if you so desire."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1049.64,"endTime":1059.2,"body":"And that can be useful because you could use all of this stuff for mass provisioning seeds that go out at scale if you want to use a container registry as your replication mechanism."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1060.02,"endTime":1063.62,"body":"And then you can then bootstrap a normal system from it or a transactional system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1064.1,"endTime":1064.8,"body":"You get the choice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1064.92,"endTime":1072.28,"body":"You get the flexibility of going, quote, unquote, immutable versus the standard traditional, quote, unquote, mutable system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1072.82,"endTime":1076.32,"body":"and I'm using the quotes because neither of these terms"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1076.82,"endTime":1078.66,"body":"actually make a whole lot of sense for describing this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1078.93,"endTime":1080.28,"body":"But this is how people talk about it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1080.31,"endTime":1081.2,"body":"So we're going to use it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1081.62,"endTime":1082.86,"body":"It's marketing gone wrong."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1083.08,"endTime":1083.78,"body":"Yes, pretty much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1084.6,"endTime":1089.48,"body":"But as far as what I think about these mechanisms,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1090.38,"endTime":1093.48,"body":"I've always been of the opinion that these types of things"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1093.53,"endTime":1097.5,"body":"are great for systems that people don't interact with directly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1098.22,"endTime":1098.46,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1098.94,"endTime":1101.499,"body":"So like appliance type systems, headless systems"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1101.52,"endTime":1104.3,"body":"that are away from you, things like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1104.32,"endTime":1104.94,"body":"Those are great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1106.06,"endTime":1109.36,"body":"We also saw here talks of desktop Linux as immutable"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1109.52,"endTime":1115.12,"body":"with both Aeon and Calpa desktops"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1115.32,"endTime":1116.74,"body":"that are powered by OpenSUSE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1116.92,"endTime":1118.9,"body":"I believe that is the official verbiage for these."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1119.779,"endTime":1125,"body":"But basically, Aeon is a GNOME desktop"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1125.1,"endTime":1126.5,"body":"and Calpa is a KDE desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1127.44,"endTime":1130.219,"body":"And both of those words are referencing a long time"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1130.24,"endTime":1133.78,"body":"given the idea that these will make the systems last forever or something like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1136.159,"endTime":1142.9,"body":"From the... I think the model that SUSE is doing, that OpenSUSE is doing, especially, I like what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1144.76,"endTime":1153.22,"body":"what Sean Dunn was showing off about Calpa, I think that has a lot of promise, because my personal"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1153.38,"endTime":1157.82,"body":"belief about how users interact with desktop systems is that there's a spectrum. And so you start,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1157.92,"endTime":1162.4,"body":"You have people that are at the lowest end where they're very basic users."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1162.53,"endTime":1164.18,"body":"They just pop up in a web browser."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1164.88,"endTime":1167.22,"body":"They'll look up stuff, maybe check their email,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1167.72,"endTime":1171.36,"body":"and use an online office suite like Google Workspace or OnlyOffice or whatever."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1172.96,"endTime":1176.14,"body":"Or Microsoft 365 if you're so inclined."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1178.76,"endTime":1181.16,"body":"And then you have the people on the other end of the spectrum,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1181.19,"endTime":1183.26,"body":"at the very, very end on the furthest note,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1183.35,"endTime":1187.22,"body":"which is these are the computer wizards that know how to OCI everything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1187.82,"endTime":1193.94,"body":"They'll create spells and sorcery through shell scripts and Docker files."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1194.02,"endTime":1197.24,"body":"And they can bend the computer to their will very easily."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1197.86,"endTime":1204.94,"body":"It's the people in the middle where I don't know if I feel like these types of systems are great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1205.54,"endTime":1210.58,"body":"Where you're just outside of the basic use cases, but you're not quite at the wizardy cases."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1211.24,"endTime":1213.84,"body":"You're not a wizard, and you want to just do stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1214.16,"endTime":1215.86,"body":"And you want to do interesting things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1216.66,"endTime":1231.86,"body":"And these systems are, I'm not saying that they're impossible to get right for this, but they're difficult because essentially the onus is on the person producing the system to curate the experience and to handle all of those things for you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1232.84,"endTime":1238.42,"body":"And as soon as you kind of fall out of their expected view of how you're going to use a system, things can get a little difficult."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1240.8,"endTime":1241.86,"body":"Again, we don't know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1241.97,"endTime":1245.2,"body":"This is just the very beginning, but this is how I see things are right now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1246.12,"endTime":1252.16,"body":"But we can see that when you have something that's got a defined, purposeful experience, things go really well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1252.22,"endTime":1257.04,"body":"And I think the best example of this is Bazite, which is a Fedora derivative for gaming."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1257.8,"endTime":1258.8,"body":"Quite at least these days."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1259.14,"endTime":1261.66,"body":"Yeah, that one kind of shows what I'm talking about."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1261.7,"endTime":1268.4,"body":"Like people don't expect it to do more than being an operating environment for playing games well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1269.02,"endTime":1271.44,"body":"And because of that, it succeeds."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1272.88,"endTime":1276.98,"body":"And when you go beyond that, then things start falling down."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1277.16,"endTime":1283.2,"body":"And I know that there were some YouTubers that tried to use SteamOS to do productivity tasks, and it did not go well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1283.86,"endTime":1285.5,"body":"Well, who would expect that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1287.16,"endTime":1290.28,"body":"Apparently, some people thought because it's Linux, you could do productivity things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1290.44,"endTime":1294.36,"body":"But you're not going to have printer drivers installed, so you're not printing your tax forms off on that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1294.5,"endTime":1294.9,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1295.36,"endTime":1295.44,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1295.7,"endTime":1298.94,"body":"And that illustrates the point I'm making."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1299.2,"endTime":1301.68,"body":"Like when you have these purposeful experience"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1301.85,"endTime":1304.04,"body":"and these appliance-like operating systems,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1305.35,"endTime":1309.46,"body":"you cannot really easily build something that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1310.18,"endTime":1312.56,"body":"serves all the use cases that people would"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1312.65,"endTime":1313.4,"body":"use with the computer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1313.88,"endTime":1315.64,"body":"When you want the computer to be general purpose,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1316.02,"endTime":1317.36,"body":"you're really going to probably want"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1317.36,"endTime":1319.04,"body":"to have a more general purpose operating experience."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1319.72,"endTime":1322.3,"body":"That being said, the transactional update technology"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1322.33,"endTime":1325.56,"body":"I think is cool because you can start off one way"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1326.03,"endTime":1328.14,"body":"and then switch to the other mode if you'd like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1328.74,"endTime":1330.22,"body":"and switch back even in theory."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1330.62,"endTime":1331.8,"body":"It's not supported by anybody."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1333,"endTime":1336.28,"body":"They'll come at me with knives and sporks,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1337.56,"endTime":1340.9,"body":"but you can theoretically go back and forth"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1341.16,"endTime":1343.3,"body":"between immutable and immutable appliance-like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1343.54,"endTime":1346.3,"body":"and general purpose without having to reprovision"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1346.3,"endTime":1348.52,"body":"your computer from scratch, which is actually quite powerful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1348.78,"endTime":1349.72,"body":"- Exactly, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1350.58,"endTime":1352.04,"body":"I mean, it really depends on the use case."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1352.08,"endTime":1353.46,"body":"I would say, like you just said,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1353.52,"endTime":1355.759,"body":"for the most people that do not care at all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1355.78,"endTime":1358.84,"body":"how the technique is working in detail,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1359.66,"endTime":1362.88,"body":"having an appliance is maybe the best way to go."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1363.16,"endTime":1363.26,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1363.82,"endTime":1366.48,"body":"It's one of the reasons why Chromebooks are so successful in that respect, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1366.68,"endTime":1367.12,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1367.26,"endTime":1369.6,"body":"I mean, if people just want to get started with Linux"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1369.74,"endTime":1371.9,"body":"and they do not care about all the details,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1372.44,"endTime":1373.04,"body":"they're good to go."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1373.28,"endTime":1377.26,"body":"Just use it and do a reboot and boot an old version."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1377.94,"endTime":1380.7,"body":"Although I find it funny that Chrome OS has been gradually moving away"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1380.86,"endTime":1383.44,"body":"from being this web-only appliance operating system"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1384.02,"endTime":1384.96,"body":"for the past 10 years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1385.22,"endTime":1393.08,"body":"Now you can run Linux graphical applications inside of an operating system micro-VM container thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1395.14,"endTime":1396.08,"body":"What a time to be alive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1396.24,"endTime":1397.12,"body":"Exactly, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1400.02,"endTime":1405.38,"body":"And that illustrates that there's a limit to what you can do with curated experiences like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1405.88,"endTime":1406.1,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1408.42,"endTime":1412.9,"body":"So another highlight of the conference was just taking place yesterday, and it was 20 years of OpenSUSE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1413.42,"endTime":1414.42,"body":"Oh my gosh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1414.96,"endTime":1415.76,"body":"It's quite old."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1415.9,"endTime":1417.36,"body":"I've been here for 15 years of it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1417.62,"endTime":1418.28,"body":"15 years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1418.5,"endTime":1423.06,"body":"So the first time you played around with it was back then 2010?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1424.3,"endTime":1426.56,"body":"Technically 2009, but yeah, 2010-ish."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1427.32,"endTime":1427.7,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1428.52,"endTime":1432.28,"body":"It was actually because the OpenSUSE build service was announced and launched."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1432.94,"endTime":1435.04,"body":"And so that's what got me interested in trying it out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1436.52,"endTime":1443.78,"body":"I mean, I'd played with SUSE Linux before, but the first time I really got involved in OpenSUSE was with that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1444.68,"endTime":1449.18,"body":"Interesting. So maybe for our listeners, we have a dedicated episode planned for the anniversary."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1450.94,"endTime":1454.42,"body":"It was first announced in 2005, just to wrap up very shortly the history,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1454.57,"endTime":1459.66,"body":"and it can be considered as a kind of successor to SUSE Linux with open development for everybody."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1459.81,"endTime":1461.64,"body":"So that's what open stands for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1462.38,"endTime":1463.98,"body":"Yeah, for once not open-washed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1464.84,"endTime":1469,"body":"Exactly, because before that, you could buy the SUSE personal or professional edition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1469.88,"endTime":1473.54,"body":"And the idea was crafting a stable and user-friendly RPM-based distribution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1473.96,"endTime":1478.92,"body":"And yeah, I would say it was quite successful because later it became the upstream for the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1479.12,"endTime":1480.46,"body":"commercial SLEE or SLES."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1480.47,"endTime":1480.6,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1480.86,"endTime":1484.04,"body":"This is what took place in SLEE 15 and OpenSUSE LEAP 15."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1484.13,"endTime":1485.78,"body":"I think 15.3 or so maybe."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1485.78,"endTime":1489.96,"body":"Well, it became the upstream for SysA Linux Enterprise, I think, with 11."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1490.68,"endTime":1490.86,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1491.12,"endTime":1495.12,"body":"So OpenSUSE 42 was SLEE 12."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1495.8,"endTime":1496.02,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1496.14,"endTime":1498.44,"body":"Before that, it was 10.11."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1499.04,"endTime":1499.16,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1499.32,"endTime":1500.82,"body":"Can't remember the version names."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1500.88,"endTime":1513.06,"body":"I think it was like, I want to say that SUSE Linux Enterprise 11 was based on somewhere between 10.2 and 11.0."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1514.6,"endTime":1524.44,"body":"And then kind of like how today when you look at Red Hat Enterprise Linux, it comes from a CentOS stream release, which itself was derived from a Fedora release."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1524.68,"endTime":1524.88,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1525.19,"endTime":1527.62,"body":"But usually at the midpoint between two Fedora releases."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1528.5,"endTime":1533.64,"body":"Even though they say, oh, yeah, no, for example, just released Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1533.94,"endTime":1539.24,"body":"And it was derived from CentOS Stream 10, which was forked from Fedora Linux 40."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1539.76,"endTime":1549.1,"body":"But actually, it kept continually bringing stuff in from Fedora Linux all the way up until, like, just before the freeze for Fedora Linux 42."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1549.24,"endTime":1553.6,"body":"So it's like 40, 41, and drops of 42 in it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1554,"endTime":1554.06,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1554.34,"endTime":1556.22,"body":"And so, like, it's the same kind of shtick."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1556.3,"endTime":1563.04,"body":"And I think that's the only reason that we don't really have this similar analog is that we don't have regular releases for OpenSUSE anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1564.13,"endTime":1568.12,"body":"Because there was a big thing that happened about 10 years ago that changed all this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1569.8,"endTime":1570.76,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1570.95,"endTime":1576.26,"body":"So the very first official version of OpenSUSE was 10.2 in 2006."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1576.54,"endTime":1579.82,"body":"So the first releases were still named SUSE Linux."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1580.46,"endTime":1582.86,"body":"So they had a mix match in the naming."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1583.12,"endTime":1586.72,"body":"And then Tumbleweed as a running release started in 2014."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1587.04,"endTime":1588.38,"body":"And I did know that it's that old."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1588.48,"endTime":1590.04,"body":"I thought it would be younger."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1590.28,"endTime":1592.6,"body":"But it's also 11 years old by now, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1593.3,"endTime":1601.24,"body":"So Tumbleweed started out as Greg Crow Hartman's little playground to have the latest Linux kernel and desktop software."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1601.76,"endTime":1602.72,"body":"I think he was a KDE user."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1603.34,"endTime":1604.18,"body":"So KDE desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1605.16,"endTime":1607.66,"body":"And Linux kernel, because he was a kernel developer at such a time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1608.62,"endTime":1609.24,"body":"Ah, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1609.36,"endTime":1611.78,"body":"And he wanted that on top of the OpenSUSE regular releases."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1612.27,"endTime":1616.46,"body":"Because at the time, the OpenSUSE regular releases were getting longer and longer between releases."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1617.37,"endTime":1621.58,"body":"Due to staffing challenges and other things going on that aren't important right now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1621.76,"endTime":1628.16,"body":"But they were issues that ultimately meant that it was starting to be frustrating to develop on OpenSUSE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1628.86,"endTime":1631.94,"body":"And as a result, he built the Tumbleweed thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1632.42,"endTime":1645.68,"body":"And then after 13.2, which was released, I think, like middle of 2014, because like the Tumbleweed as early release was at the end of 2014."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1646.66,"endTime":1650.44,"body":"And then they just said, OK, well, we're just not doing early releases anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1650.44,"endTime":1652.5,"body":"We're not doing regular releases anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1653.26,"endTime":1655.64,"body":"We will mush Tumbleweed into factory."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1656.26,"endTime":1657.74,"body":"And now factory is Tumbleweed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1658.28,"endTime":1668.28,"body":"And so now what happens is after the OpenQA automation and all this other stuff that runs, you know, once it's qualified as good, it takes a snapshot and that's published."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1668.88,"endTime":1670.02,"body":"And that is a Tumbleweed release."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1670.57,"endTime":1673.46,"body":"And that's been going on continuously for a decade now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1674.12,"endTime":1674.54,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1675.23,"endTime":1679.76,"body":"And I think it was one of the very first run-release distributions besides things like Gen2."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1681.44,"endTime":1684.22,"body":"Well, Arch was rolling-released for a while at this point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1684.84,"endTime":1690.98,"body":"But it is the first rolling release distribution, I would probably say, that had some kind of guarantee of working."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1692.78,"endTime":1694.12,"body":"I don't know if you can..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1694.48,"endTime":1697.76,"body":"Gen2 is very hard to classify because you actually don't get stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1698.32,"endTime":1700.28,"body":"You get piles of scripts and source code."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1701.74,"endTime":1702.36,"body":"It's up to you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1702.48,"endTime":1705.04,"body":"It's up to you whether you're going to break it or make it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1707,"endTime":1712.499,"body":"But yeah, I think OpenSUSE of Tumbleweed is probably the first rolling release distribution"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1712.52,"endTime":1714.96,"body":"that was like, we're going to have a user experience"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1715.28,"endTime":1716.72,"body":"that doesn't involve you having to figure out"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1716.92,"endTime":1718.98,"body":"how a user experience works."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1720.419,"endTime":1721.58,"body":"So there is that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1721.66,"endTime":1725.8,"body":"And I think that speaks for some level of value there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1726.58,"endTime":1726.74,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1727.72,"endTime":1729.9,"body":"I remember the first Linux distribution I was using"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1730.08,"endTime":1731.82,"body":"that was back then in 2003,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1732.08,"endTime":1734.84,"body":"and it was SUSE Linux 7.2 Professional Edition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1735.3,"endTime":1736.14,"body":"Ooh, so fancy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1736.56,"endTime":1739.44,"body":"It was really fancy and was part of a German computer magazine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1739.96,"endTime":1745.08,"body":"And back then I was a teenager in my early 13 years old thought,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1745.74,"endTime":1748.06,"body":"I have a lot of virus problems with my computer,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1748.24,"endTime":1749.7,"body":"not because I don't know stuff from the internet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1749.85,"endTime":1753.44,"body":"No, there are completely legal reasons why I got all those viruses."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1754.23,"endTime":1757.92,"body":"And I heard that Linux is that operating system that isn't affected by viruses."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1758.15,"endTime":1759.42,"body":"So I gave it a try."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1760.06,"endTime":1762.06,"body":"And later I also tried 9.2."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1763.14,"endTime":1766.96,"body":"It was okay, but graphics card and audio was a pain in the ass back then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1767.28,"endTime":1770.42,"body":"And I finally got hooked with Ubuntu 5.10."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1771.7,"endTime":1774.58,"body":"And that was an entry for me into Linux."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1774.72,"endTime":1776.7,"body":"And now it's part of my daily life."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1777.36,"endTime":1781.34,"body":"Yeah, for me, my first Linux was from a library book"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1781.34,"endTime":1782.76,"body":"that was actually about Red Hat Linux 5,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1783,"endTime":1784.88,"body":"but actually included the CDs of 6.2."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1785.38,"endTime":1787.46,"body":"Because clearly the librarian didn't notice the difference"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1787.66,"endTime":1789.16,"body":"when the book was returned."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1790.12,"endTime":1793.86,"body":"So Red Hat Linux 6.2 with a book that was totally not helpful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1795.46,"endTime":1796.94,"body":"I installed it on my machine and broke it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1797.18,"endTime":1797.92,"body":"And that was amazing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1798.19,"endTime":1803.64,"body":"It was amazing because, like, the context around this is that around this time,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1803.95,"endTime":1805.38,"body":"Windows XP came out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1805.58,"endTime":1809.22,"body":"And at this point, a lot of the customization you could do to a Windows system"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1809.34,"endTime":1810,"body":"was basically gone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1810.64,"endTime":1815.72,"body":"Because Windows NT introduced all of the safety and protections"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1816.32,"endTime":1818.12,"body":"that were actually originally introduced in Windows 2000,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1818.37,"endTime":1819.96,"body":"Windows Millennium Edition, separately."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1820.05,"endTime":1822.26,"body":"So, like, the Windows Restore stuff in Windows Millennium Edition,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1823,"endTime":1827.3,"body":"as well as the protected DLLs feature that came in Windows 2000"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1828.179,"endTime":1830.92,"body":"to kind of keep people from breaking the computer"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1831.09,"endTime":1834.12,"body":"because, you know, if you experienced, you know,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1834.52,"endTime":1836.96,"body":"people installing funny things in Windows 95 and 98,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1837.32,"endTime":1838.48,"body":"then you know what I'm talking about."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1838.84,"endTime":1843.7,"body":"I broke my system so often because I installed kind of tweak UI patching"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1843.94,"endTime":1845.92,"body":"that crashed all the DLLs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1846.28,"endTime":1846.36,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1846.65,"endTime":1847.48,"body":"Been there, done that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1847.66,"endTime":1851.739,"body":"Or you installed, you know, insert sketchy driver manufacturer"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1854.36,"endTime":1856.22,"body":"faster graphics driver."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1856.68,"endTime":1857.58,"body":"Download more RAM."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1857.82,"endTime":1860.42,"body":"Or the download more RAM and things like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1860.82,"endTime":1864.06,"body":"Yeah, all those things that Microsoft wanted to stop having happen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1864.26,"endTime":1868.36,"body":"The side effect of that was they made Windows far less flexible and customizable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1868.86,"endTime":1873.02,"body":"And the NT architecture was definitely an improvement, but everything else kind of sucked."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1873.82,"endTime":1875.3,"body":"And I was kind of starting to get bored."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1875.7,"endTime":1886.68,"body":"And so moving on to Linux and being like, oh, I actually have the ability to own my computing experience was a big win for me, a big selling point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1887.02,"endTime":1888.22,"body":"And so I started with that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1888.93,"endTime":1892.5,"body":"And I actually did try Sysa Linux as well very early on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1892.54,"endTime":1895.66,"body":"I think it was like 8.1 and then 9.2."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1897.26,"endTime":1899.76,"body":"Unfortunately, I was never very lucky with Sysa Linux."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1900.46,"endTime":1911.94,"body":"Back then, I would try to install it, and then at some point, the installation would fail, and it would go from English to German with red text on yellow backgrounds."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1912.26,"endTime":1912.78,"body":"Oh, wow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1913.18,"endTime":1914.76,"body":"And it would be like, oh, crap."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1915.6,"endTime":1917.14,"body":"I don't know what any of this means."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1917.42,"endTime":1918.54,"body":"Need you open just to fix it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1919.16,"endTime":1921.58,"body":"The fact that I even understand half of that is not good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1923.18,"endTime":1931.74,"body":"But like, you know, and I met, you know, I met some of the early SUSE folks, you know, during that time here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1931.88,"endTime":1941.56,"body":"And, you know, we had a chat and one of them related to me like, yeah, the engineers at the time didn't think it was worth it to add translations for error messages because nobody would ever see them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1942.34,"endTime":1947.94,"body":"I'm like, I saw them all the time and made me give up on using it because like the errors kept happening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1949.04,"endTime":1952.72,"body":"And it was, in retrospect, that was not a good call."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1953.08,"endTime":1956.86,"body":"And I mean, back then, running desktop Linux was way harder than these days."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1957.52,"endTime":1958.26,"body":"Speaking of things like..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1958.26,"endTime":1959.22,"body":"There was no auto magic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1960.7,"endTime":1966.2,"body":"This and, of course, dealing with things like compiling your NVIDIA graphics card driver, and you don't know..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1966.2,"endTime":1968.02,"body":"Well, that's still a thing now, but like..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1968.1,"endTime":1974.56,"body":"Yeah, but now I'm using AMD-based machines and I do not care at all, but back then it was way harder because these days you have things like DKMS."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1975.46,"endTime":1977.2,"body":"None of that stuff existed back then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1977.46,"endTime":1982.82,"body":"Also, the concept of drivers as external modules was brand new back then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1983.28,"endTime":1987.88,"body":"It was just introduced with, I think it was Linux 2.2 or 2.4 or something like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1988.02,"endTime":1990.94,"body":"But it was a real recent thing back then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1993.48,"endTime":1996.56,"body":"And also, graphics drivers were user space."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1996.56,"endTime":1999.08,"body":"So you had to recompile the X server for that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1999.86,"endTime":2008.66,"body":"And that was, I downloaded X386 to try to fix it because I had an NVIDIA TNT2."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2009.22,"endTime":2009.72,"body":"Oh, wow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2010.58,"endTime":2011.5,"body":"Pricey card back then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2011.7,"endTime":2016.58,"body":"Yeah, well, it was also very difficult to deal with both on Windows and Linux."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2016.74,"endTime":2016.86,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2017.28,"endTime":2020.54,"body":"But because the NVIDIA driver teams were not good back then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2021.3,"endTime":2021.9,"body":"They're great now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2022.02,"endTime":2025.52,"body":"Like, they actually do know what they're doing, and their drivers are top-notch in terms of implementation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2026.28,"endTime":2029.4,"body":"But way back in the early aughts, they were not good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2030.36,"endTime":2032.44,"body":"and in order to do those"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2032.53,"endTime":2034.36,"body":"I had this like oh yeah you need to have an"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2034.58,"endTime":2036.14,"body":"updated version of x386"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2036.33,"endTime":2038.48,"body":"I'm like okay and I was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2038.58,"endTime":2040.04,"body":"on dial up so I spent like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2040.3,"endTime":2042.6,"body":"weeks downloading these tarballs"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2042.86,"endTime":2044.42,"body":"and then alright I got them all downloaded"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2044.66,"endTime":2046.26,"body":"now what and of course"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2046.41,"endTime":2048.2,"body":"x doesn't have auto tools back then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2048.36,"endTime":2050.44,"body":"it's still iMake and all this other weird"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2050.7,"endTime":2052.36,"body":"stuff oh god iMake"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2052.409,"endTime":2054.44,"body":"I forgot that thanks for bringing it to the table"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2054.659,"endTime":2056.44,"body":"again and it got"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2056.5,"endTime":2058.199,"body":"to a point where I was like oh crap"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2058.22,"endTime":2060.44,"body":"I don't think my computer works anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2061.5,"endTime":2061.639,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2062.36,"endTime":2065.159,"body":"I remember back then when Ubuntu 5.10 was released,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2065.36,"endTime":2068.179,"body":"we had our very first DSL internet plan"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2069,"endTime":2070.639,"body":"with a volume plan of 2 gigabytes,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2071.72,"endTime":2074.899,"body":"which was amazingly much back then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2075.6,"endTime":2077.96,"body":"And then when I downloaded the ISO..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2077.96,"endTime":2078.379,"body":"You blew it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2078.74,"endTime":2079.7,"body":"I totally blew it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2080.419,"endTime":2082.56,"body":"And couldn't use the internet for two weeks"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2082.82,"endTime":2084.02,"body":"until the end of the month."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2084.62,"endTime":2086.378,"body":"Yeah, so for me, let's see, the first..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2086.399,"endTime":2088.879,"body":"And I went on to use Red Hat Linux for a while."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2089.52,"endTime":2093.6,"body":"And then I actually started using Ubuntu with 504."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2094.2,"endTime":2096.58,"body":"That was also the release that Kubuntu was introduced in."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2096.96,"endTime":2097.38,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2098,"endTime":2100.6,"body":"So originally, the first release, 4.10, was only GNOME."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2101.16,"endTime":2102.24,"body":"People were not happy about that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2102.42,"endTime":2106.1,"body":"So with 504, they introduced Kubuntu, the KDE Ubuntu."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2106.8,"endTime":2114.48,"body":"And so I used Kubuntu and Ubuntu 504 alongside finally making the jump from Red Hat Linux to FedoraCore 4."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2114.94,"endTime":2115.28,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2116,"endTime":2124.18,"body":"So Fedora Core 4 was actually the first release of Fedora that I felt comfortable enough to actually just roll out to my laptop and my desktops."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2126.08,"endTime":2129.9,"body":"Because before that I'd played with it, but they were all frankly buggy and broken."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2131.24,"endTime":2141.7,"body":"And so I stuck onto Red Hat Linux 9 for far too long and consumed stuff from Fedora Legacy to support my Red Hat Linux 9 system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2142,"endTime":2146.7,"body":"They had extra long support for it, right? For the latest version, 9.2, I think they had..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2146.7,"endTime":2149.68,"body":"9.0 was just it, and then just extended on forever."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2149.68,"endTime":2150.02,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2150.52,"endTime":2156.46,"body":"Yeah, so when Red Hat Linux was reorganized in the Fedora project, there was a bunch of sub-projects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2156.56,"endTime":2162.98,"body":"So there was Fedora Core, Fedora Extras, Fedora Legacy, and I forget what the last one was, but it doesn't matter."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2163.75,"endTime":2168.16,"body":"But Fedora Legacy was supposed to support the Red Hat Linux release with the community."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2168.62,"endTime":2172.34,"body":"The problem was that having it exist there, no one was working on anything else."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2175.14,"endTime":2179.16,"body":"And that made it very unappealing and unattractive to keep running."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2179.27,"endTime":2184.46,"body":"So Fedora Legacy went down like the Titanic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2184.98,"endTime":2186.5,"body":"Oh, that's a nice way to phrase it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2187.82,"endTime":2192.72,"body":"But I did eventually move on to Fedora Core 4, and I was dual booting Fedora and Ubuntu for a long time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2193.82,"endTime":2196.04,"body":"And then I went to college."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2196.96,"endTime":2199.04,"body":"And when I went to college, I got a Mac for the first time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2199.18,"endTime":2200.36,"body":"And so I was dual booting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2201.08,"endTime":2202.5,"body":"I was triple booting, actually."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2202.78,"endTime":2208.54,"body":"Triple booting Linux, Windows, and Mac on that MacBook for my entire college years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2209.76,"endTime":2214.22,"body":"And then after that, I finally settled on Fedora."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2214.48,"endTime":2218.6,"body":"And then really got back into OpenSUSE around 10 years ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2220.68,"endTime":2226.98,"body":"When I started for my job having to support deploying software on SUSE servers again,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2227.58,"endTime":2233.3,"body":"my first enterprise Linux experience was actually with Novell Open Enterprise Server and Novell Linux Desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2233.38,"endTime":2233.82,"body":"Oh, wow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2234.1,"endTime":2235.28,"body":"That's very niche."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2235.5,"endTime":2235.94,"body":"OES and NLD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2237.24,"endTime":2244.18,"body":"Because where I was going to school, the state, I was in Mississippi,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2244.18,"endTime":2247.7,"body":"and the state had agreed to move from NetWare to OES."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2248.96,"endTime":2250.62,"body":"It's something at least, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2250.81,"endTime":2255.54,"body":"And Novell also convinced them to migrate their Solaris servers to Sysa Linux Enterprise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2256.16,"endTime":2256.42,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2257.02,"endTime":2262.24,"body":"And also the Solaris workstations all moved to Novell Linux Desktop and all of this stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2262.25,"endTime":2265.7,"body":"And so my first real experiences were with OES and NLD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2266.26,"endTime":2271.9,"body":"And so my first Enterprise Linux was actually Sysa and not Red Hat, which is what most people do not expect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2271.91,"endTime":2277.28,"body":"It was like, oh, yeah, no, my first experience was actually with Sysa stuff before Zipper."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2278.44,"endTime":2278.84,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2280.64,"endTime":2285.1,"body":"Yeah, there was also taking a session was taking place during the conference"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2285.56,"endTime":2288.22,"body":"where the OpenSUSE board was talking about the future governance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2288.38,"endTime":2291.42,"body":"And I think you are also participating in that one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2291.62,"endTime":2293.38,"body":"So we have 20 years of OpenSUSE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2294.7,"endTime":2298.7,"body":"And SUSE CEO was also here during the keynote."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2298.8,"endTime":2305.12,"body":"And he said and mentioned that 10% increases on supporting the OpenSUSE project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2305.38,"endTime":2307.2,"body":"Yeah, that was a surprise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2307.56,"endTime":2308.3,"body":"It's a good surprise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2308.4,"endTime":2310.1,"body":"too. It's nice to see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2311.98,"endTime":2312.5,"body":"SUSE"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2312.5,"endTime":2314.42,"body":"as a company recognizing the value"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2314.92,"endTime":2316.34,"body":"of the OpenSUSE project"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2316.53,"endTime":2318.6,"body":"in the communities and increasing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2318.82,"endTime":2319.4,"body":"their investment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2321.2,"endTime":2322.54,"body":"And I expect"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2322.79,"endTime":2324.38,"body":"great things with more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2325.04,"endTime":2326.62,"body":"investment. So we'll"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2326.72,"endTime":2328.56,"body":"see what that turns into. But like 10%"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2328.65,"endTime":2330.12,"body":"of more is no joke."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2330.84,"endTime":2331.36,"body":"That's a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2332.54,"endTime":2334.54,"body":"I also think that's a good sign"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2334.72,"endTime":2336.318,"body":"to see the future"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2336.88,"endTime":2339.18,"body":"might look good for the OpenSUSE project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2339.27,"endTime":2340.96,"body":"And we also have things like the Uni projects"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2341.28,"endTime":2342.94,"body":"should also be under the umbrella"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2343.05,"endTime":2344.92,"body":"of the OpenSUSE community."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2345.45,"endTime":2348.2,"body":"I mean, it kind of always has been, but..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2348.2,"endTime":2349,"body":"Only sort of."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2349.58,"endTime":2353.08,"body":"Sort of, because the URLs are still owned by SUSE,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2353.1,"endTime":2354.1,"body":"as far as I'm concerned."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2354.44,"endTime":2354.52,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2354.76,"endTime":2356.72,"body":"But they are also using things like OBS"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2356.92,"endTime":2357.78,"body":"for building all their packages"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2358.06,"endTime":2360.76,"body":"and being a fully OpenSUSE community project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2360.76,"endTime":2363.32,"body":"And their mailing lists were, before they shut them down,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2363.42,"endTime":2364.76,"body":"they were on the OpenSUSE listserv."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2364.84,"endTime":2365.52,"body":"All right, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2367.24,"endTime":2371.94,"body":"One of the reasons that OpenSUSE moved to the Mailman 3 Hyperkitty stuff"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2371.98,"endTime":2375.5,"body":"was so that we could use different domains for different lists with the same infrastructure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2376.12,"endTime":2378.78,"body":"And so the Uyuni lists were actually always OpenSUSE mailing lists"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2379.52,"endTime":2381.38,"body":"because we had the infrastructure to support them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2382.3,"endTime":2382.76,"body":"Makes sense."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2384.18,"endTime":2388.96,"body":"And while we're talking newer Leap, SLEE, and SLMicro releases are just around the corner."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2389.44,"endTime":2390.32,"body":"At the end of the year."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2390.4,"endTime":2392.44,"body":"I don't know if that's around the corner, but if you know..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2392.86,"endTime":2393.18,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2394.36,"endTime":2395.7,"body":"It's not that far anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2395.85,"endTime":2401,"body":"So in November, Leap 16 and SUSE Linux Enterprise 16 are expected."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2401.24,"endTime":2404.08,"body":"And in December, SUSE Linux Micro 6.2 should follow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2404.11,"endTime":2406.74,"body":"And those will be the first releases with the ALP code base."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2406.89,"endTime":2409.46,"body":"Did you have any chance to play with the beta or alpha back then?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2409.92,"endTime":2414.5,"body":"Yeah, I mean, like, so when the first, I guess, okay, we're calling it ALP."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2414.9,"endTime":2418.74,"body":"I mean, now SUSE is calling it SLFO, SUSE Linux Framework 1."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2418.94,"endTime":2419.32,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2420.15,"endTime":2421.24,"body":"New face, new services."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2421.62,"endTime":2422.02,"body":"New name."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2423.34,"endTime":2423.4,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2423.88,"endTime":2431.36,"body":"I mean, I'm just going to say the Sousa Linux 16 platform, because that's much easier for people to understand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2431.9,"endTime":2436.4,"body":"So I first started playing with it, actually, I think like a few months after the first snapshot started coming out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2438.18,"endTime":2441.58,"body":"It was very broken in the beginning, but it's shaped up very well over the time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2442.53,"endTime":2446.42,"body":"I think my most recent attempt at playing with it was actually back in February."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2447.36,"endTime":2451.46,"body":"I was trying to do my talk demo."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2451.7,"endTime":2459.24,"body":"So for SousaCon, the talk I did was about doing a KDE desktop in the cloud with SousaLinux Enterprise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2459.44,"endTime":2463.6,"body":"And I was like, oh, you know what would be fun if I actually did this with SousaLinux 16,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2464.38,"endTime":2469.18,"body":"even though it's not out yet, because, you know, we're supposed to be talking about SousaLinux 16 at SousaCon."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2469.72,"endTime":2469.96,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2470.14,"endTime":2471.38,"body":"It wasn't quite there yet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2472.94,"endTime":2476.26,"body":"So we rolled back to SousaLinux 15, and it worked out fine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2476.36,"endTime":2478.76,"body":"But like, yeah, I keep my eye on it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2479.5,"endTime":2480.98,"body":"And, you know, I submit stuff into it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2481.03,"endTime":2489.24,"body":"Like, I have packages that are in Leap 16 as well as, you know, like, I play with it every once in a while and check out the stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2489.41,"endTime":2498.72,"body":"Like, especially with the things going on with the new installer, the integration with Cockpit that they're doing, a lot of the work around transactional update that they've just, you know, recently rolled out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2498.83,"endTime":2501.3,"body":"Like the transactional update 5.0 and stuff like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2501.74,"endTime":2504.8,"body":"Yeah, I pay close attention to it because it's a very interesting platform for me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2505.22,"endTime":2522.22,"body":"Some of the stuff that I've spent many years trying to do about unifying the experience of integrating support for Sysa Linux in tandem with Red Hat platforms like Fedora and CentOS and Alma Linux and others, and RHEL even,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2523.9,"endTime":2529.36,"body":"a lot of that has been increasingly realized over the past few years, and it shows up in a big way with the SL16."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2531.04,"endTime":2533.42,"body":"I do wish there was more that was going into it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2533.42,"endTime":2535.6,"body":"but I'm very happy to see the progress that's there now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2536.06,"endTime":2536.34,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2536.78,"endTime":2539.52,"body":"Because, you know, it means that more people,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2540.22,"endTime":2543.88,"body":"the barrier of entry to supporting Sysa Linux as a platform"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2544.62,"endTime":2547,"body":"and supporting customers that want to use Sysa Linux"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2548.48,"endTime":2549.66,"body":"is just so much easier."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2550.32,"endTime":2552.54,"body":"It's like, I don't like having to fight"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2552.82,"endTime":2556.16,"body":"to support the Sysa customer bases."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2556.58,"endTime":2558.62,"body":"It's, you know, from a professional point of view,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2558.78,"endTime":2563.58,"body":"I think it's important and advantageous to support Sysa Linux and it opens as a community."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2564.28,"endTime":2567.08,"body":"But sometimes it can get hard when things are just a little too weird."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2567.86,"endTime":2568.46,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2569.4,"endTime":2573.36,"body":"Maybe as a short summary for our listeners who heard this for the first time,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2573.54,"endTime":2575.98,"body":"so it's still a generic purpose operating system,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2576.58,"endTime":2578.9,"body":"but also new, besides the new code base,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2579.22,"endTime":2584.04,"body":"is that SLEE 16 on SLEE Micro 6.0.2 will come without native desktop applications,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2584.28,"endTime":2587.7,"body":"so no SLEE desktop anymore, but Flatpak should be used instead."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2588.36,"endTime":2589.4,"body":"That's super unfortunate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2589.88,"endTime":2589.98,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2590.3,"endTime":2599.98,"body":"I think that Sousa was the last great bulwark providing an enterprise desktop offering that I could solidly recommend to people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2600.4,"endTime":2600.64,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2600.8,"endTime":2603.78,"body":"I would, I don't know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2604.08,"endTime":2608.46,"body":"It'd be nice to have that more as part of it because I think it's great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2608.64,"endTime":2610.5,"body":"I understand the business reasons for it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2611.12,"endTime":2615.44,"body":"But, you know, I mean, at least there's still the desktop shell."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2616.14,"endTime":2622.68,"body":"And even if the native applications aren't offered by SUSE, they'll be in Package Hub because they're in factory."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2622.8,"endTime":2624.82,"body":"And so they'll be automatically available through Package Hub."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2625.18,"endTime":2627.58,"body":"Exactly. So there will be KDE and other things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2627.76,"endTime":2632.74,"body":"And I mean, I haven't seen an enterprise desktop for a very long time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2632.96,"endTime":2638.2,"body":"So maybe if you think about financial services, they tend to have enterprise desktops."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2638.26,"endTime":2644.14,"body":"But even if you have a look at how actual employees at Red Hat and SUSE work, they have their laptop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2644.46,"endTime":2645.8,"body":"They are running OpenSUSE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2645.88,"endTime":2648.08,"body":"They are running Fedora, whatever."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2648.36,"endTime":2652.68,"body":"I don't know anybody that actually runs RHEL as a desktop or SLEE as a desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2653.22,"endTime":2654.48,"body":"And maybe that's the greatest failing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2655.2,"endTime":2656.66,"body":"Maybe it is the greatest failing, yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2656.9,"endTime":2660.38,"body":"because people who are developers tend to have newer versions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2661.24,"endTime":2666,"body":"And on the other hand, who wants to support a desktop for 13 years or even longer?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2666.32,"endTime":2667.64,"body":"Well, I mean, Microsoft, clearly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2668.02,"endTime":2669.08,"body":"Yeah, of course, they do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2669.26,"endTime":2672.28,"body":"But who working at SUSE, Canonical, and Red Hat wants to do this?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2672.54,"endTime":2673.06,"body":"Canonical does."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2673.14,"endTime":2675.3,"body":"They have a supported desktop thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2677.28,"endTime":2680.82,"body":"Feelings aside about how that desktop is,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2680.84,"endTime":2683.54,"body":"I mean, I want a supported KDE desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2684.12,"endTime":2685.66,"body":"All these people are doing GNOME."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2685.78,"endTime":2686.88,"body":"Maybe that's the real problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2687.34,"endTime":2688.84,"body":"Everybody's just doing GNOME desktop"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2689.1,"endTime":2691.32,"body":"so that it's not attractive enough to support the desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2692.6,"endTime":2693.52,"body":"But in all seriousness,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2695.88,"endTime":2697.598,"body":"I think the actual thing is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2698.5,"endTime":2704.6,"body":"when you look at where the money goes and where the marketing goes,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2705.31,"endTime":2707,"body":"I think it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2708.04,"endTime":2711.5,"body":"And the other thing is that if you're not dogfooding your product"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2711.78,"endTime":2714.82,"body":"and not really using it, I don't think you can make it good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2715.48,"endTime":2718.92,"body":"And if you see Red Hat employees and SUSE employees,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2719.14,"endTime":2723.36,"body":"they're using Fedora and OpenSUSE instead of RHEL and SLEE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2724.56,"endTime":2727.058,"body":"Okay, I mean, you're still partly dogfooding"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2727.08,"endTime":2728.34,"body":"because you're working with the upstream stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2730.92,"endTime":2733.22,"body":"But there's a fundamental loss there"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2733.36,"endTime":2735.64,"body":"because you don't understand the experience that you're selling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2737.2,"endTime":2740.76,"body":"It makes you a poor advocate of those things"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2741.58,"endTime":2742.84,"body":"to customers and partners,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2743.22,"endTime":2745.48,"body":"because if you can't talk about it because you don't live it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2745.72,"endTime":2746.68,"body":"because you don't experience it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2747.44,"endTime":2748.64,"body":"it becomes much more difficult."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2750.3,"endTime":2750.72,"body":"- Yeah, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2751.32,"endTime":2753.64,"body":"I think we do not have the ultimate answer for it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2753.9,"endTime":2754.78,"body":"But yeah, of course,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2755.58,"endTime":2758.2,"body":"companies need to build things that are bought outside."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2759.28,"endTime":2763.42,"body":"And I think the interest in an enterprise desktop isn't that big anymore"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2763.6,"endTime":2765.84,"body":"than it might have been in the past, maybe."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2768.24,"endTime":2772.8,"body":"Yeah, I think that there's been a confluence of unfortunate events"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2773.04,"endTime":2774.7,"body":"and factors and macroeconomic conditions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2775.24,"endTime":2779.68,"body":"But at the same time, if we go forward, looking into the next three or four years,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2780.5,"endTime":2786.86,"body":"I see the economic conditions around supported desktop Linux changing in the favor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2787.52,"endTime":2792.1,"body":"People want it more now than they did 10 years ago or 15 years ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2792.74,"endTime":2796.94,"body":"The question is, will anyone jump up and take advantage of the opportunity?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2797.26,"endTime":2797.66,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2798.14,"endTime":2799.1,"body":"We will see, I guess."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2800.76,"endTime":2805.66,"body":"On the other hand, we also have Sli Micro, that is still a minimalistic container and VM host."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2805.82,"endTime":2810.2,"body":"And they also mentioned that containerized desktops are also in discussion for that platform."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2811.42,"endTime":2817.32,"body":"what are your opinions on it do you think maybe start with sl micro basically do you have strong"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2817.54,"endTime":2823.56,"body":"feelings about this distribution or leap micro i don't think sl micro should exist as a separate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2823.72,"endTime":2828.14,"body":"product i think it's weird to be a separate product i think it makes sense as a configuration"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2828.64,"endTime":2834.598,"body":"a deployment option of sysa linux 16 i don't think it actually makes sense being separate it it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2834.62,"endTime":2841.68,"body":"introduces too much weirdness like so for example um i heard earlier today about someone who was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2841.68,"endTime":2852.26,"body":"trying to do a deployment of you know uh susa multi-linux manager on on on flea and the deployment"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2852.31,"endTime":2859.918,"body":"stuff was tooled around sl micro and because they didn't have because it was not a a union of package"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2859.94,"endTime":2870.22,"body":"content for micro and full SLEE. That is, SL micro has stuff that does not exist in SLEE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2870.58,"endTime":2870.78,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2871.14,"endTime":2875.82,"body":"It meant that it was not actually compatible because SL micro is not a true subset."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2876.48,"endTime":2876.62,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2876.76,"endTime":2885.098,"body":"So when you have stuff like that happening, it makes it difficult to really make deployments"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2885.12,"endTime":2890.78,"body":"work in a way that fits a business's needs. And that's where I think things start really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2890.96,"endTime":2900.2,"body":"breaking down. The moment I saw that the package sets weren't actually unified, that was kind"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2900.2,"endTime":2904.08,"body":"of a deal breaker for me. And I suspect it was for a lot of other people. The good news"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2904.1,"endTime":2908.898,"body":"on that front is I think that that's changing in the future. And it'll be a true subset of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2908.92,"endTime":2912.42,"body":"the SUSE Linux platform on the going forward basis with 16."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2913.28,"endTime":2916.92,"body":"So there's some much more positive, I have much more positive about that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2918.66,"endTime":2922.6,"body":"And I see, again, when we're talking about appliance-based operating systems for like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2922.64,"endTime":2928.6,"body":"non-user facing things, I think this is a good configuration model for these types of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2928.76,"endTime":2932.46,"body":"things, which also leads to me saying that I don't think containerized desktops are a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2932.46,"endTime":2932.84,"body":"good idea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2934.14,"endTime":2938.88,"body":"Also, they're bloody hard to actually make work, and I don't think that they're a good"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2938.96,"endTime":2942.52,"body":"I mean, it's at least one of the hype topics, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2942.65,"endTime":2944.62,"body":"So in a lot of conferences that I attended,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2944.67,"endTime":2947.8,"body":"I see people talking about their UBLUE-based operating systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2947.8,"endTime":2950.04,"body":"Yeah, but UBLUE is not a containerized desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2950.16,"endTime":2951.2,"body":"You're right, you're right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2951.37,"endTime":2955.52,"body":"But also other things like their SLEE micro or their Leap micro"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2955.57,"endTime":2958.06,"body":"that they are using and their EO and Kalpa."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2958.4,"endTime":2960.3,"body":"So it's all over the place, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2961.04,"endTime":2964.02,"body":"And I mean, it's nice that people are tinkering around with it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2964.02,"endTime":2967.1,"body":"We will see whether it's suitable for daily use."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2968.38,"endTime":2972,"body":"But speaking of the reduced package set, it's a real bummer, to be honest."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2972.22,"endTime":2977.62,"body":"So I've also seen a lot of customers that were using Sli Micro or Leap Micro,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2978.2,"endTime":2979.7,"body":"and everything was working as expected."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2979.8,"endTime":2980.94,"body":"I mean, it's an appliance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2981.26,"endTime":2983.44,"body":"So you run a container, run an application on it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2983.56,"endTime":2986.08,"body":"and you just need Podman, Firewall, and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2986.4,"endTime":2987.74,"body":"Yep, and your cockpit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2988.24,"endTime":2989.02,"body":"And your cockpit, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2989.12,"endTime":2990.58,"body":"I really appreciate that one,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2990.74,"endTime":2993.54,"body":"because I know a lot of people that still use Webman these days."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2994.14,"endTime":2994.68,"body":"Oh, my God."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2994.76,"endTime":2999.06,"body":"And then when I showed them the Cockpit service,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2999.15,"endTime":3001.4,"body":"they were like, oh, my God, that looks so beautiful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3001.53,"endTime":3002.14,"body":"And it's working."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3002.58,"endTime":3004.12,"body":"And it doesn't break things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3004.38,"endTime":3006.46,"body":"It doesn't break things because it comes from the window"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3006.62,"endTime":3008.16,"body":"that gives you the whole operating system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3008.29,"endTime":3008.66,"body":"Guess what?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3009.02,"endTime":3009.2,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3009.71,"endTime":3010.98,"body":"You know, fun fact about Cockpit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3010.98,"endTime":3014.18,"body":"It was actually inspired by both the Microsoft console,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3014.56,"endTime":3016.6,"body":"the Admin console, and Yast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3016.92,"endTime":3017.18,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3017.66,"endTime":3018.34,"body":"So, like..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3018.34,"endTime":3020.08,"body":"The best of both worlds, I guess."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3020.98,"endTime":3021.84,"body":"Something like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3022.34,"endTime":3028.08,"body":"The plugin architecture for being able to add in more modules is definitely a Microsoft console thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3028.38,"endTime":3028.48,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3028.72,"endTime":3038.98,"body":"And having the particular uniform integrated experience is something for systems management is really a Yast thing that I appreciate having in Cockpit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3039.3,"endTime":3050.64,"body":"So, you know, yes, it came from Red Hat, but like, you know, one of the main developers at one point admitted to me at a DevConf US that like, yeah, Yast was the reason why we started working on this along with the Microsoft console."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3050.72,"endTime":3053.06,"body":"because we wanted to bring Windows admins over."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3053.54,"endTime":3056.8,"body":"This was the idea was to make it easier for people to go Windows to Linux."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3057.56,"endTime":3058.22,"body":"And it's working out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3058.34,"endTime":3061.62,"body":"So I know people that were just used to use Microsoft Windows systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3061.9,"endTime":3065.76,"body":"And when we showed them cockpit, they were like, oh, that looks quite known to me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3066.17,"endTime":3066.8,"body":"And I like it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3066.93,"endTime":3067.8,"body":"And you can approach it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3068.04,"endTime":3068.26,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3068.38,"endTime":3068.66,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3068.93,"endTime":3069.06,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3069.26,"endTime":3072.22,"body":"So I think that was a very good idea to go for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3073.38,"endTime":3073.48,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3073.63,"endTime":3079.78,"body":"So the reason people that I know stumble upon issues with Sleave Micro or Leap Micro is that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3079.98,"endTime":3081.78,"body":"after they installed the application"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3081.95,"endTime":3083.88,"body":"and got everything up and running, they want to install"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3083.93,"endTime":3084.92,"body":"their monitoring agent."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3086.979,"endTime":3087.7,"body":"Somehow requires"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3088.48,"endTime":3089.94,"body":"having the corn shell and guess what?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3089.98,"endTime":3091.52,"body":"It's not available on Micro."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3092.28,"endTime":3093.52,"body":"No, I got bitten by that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3093.96,"endTime":3096.24,"body":"That's one of the reasons why I don't like the whole..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3096.7,"endTime":3097.94,"body":"Well, and what's worse"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3098.14,"endTime":3099.8,"body":"is it's not just that it was a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3099.98,"endTime":3101.22,"body":"reduced package, it was not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3102.13,"endTime":3103.9,"body":"a true subset. Because if it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3103.9,"endTime":3105.74,"body":"was a true subset, then you can just say, oh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3105.8,"endTime":3107.92,"body":"I'll just add the other stuff back in manually."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3108.24,"endTime":3109,"body":"Yeah, not working."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3109.28,"endTime":3114.64,"body":"But it doesn't always work because they were for a long time semi-incompatible, and it was a big problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3115.06,"endTime":3115.42,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3115.66,"endTime":3118.96,"body":"That's why I'm thrilled to see the new version based on the same code base."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3119.08,"endTime":3120.76,"body":"I think things will be better."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3120.76,"endTime":3121.66,"body":"Oh, things will be much better."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3121.9,"endTime":3122.68,"body":"Yeah, I think so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3123.44,"endTime":3125.12,"body":"Maybe let's fire up some of the other highlights."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3125.18,"endTime":3130.32,"body":"We have the new installer Agama that you just mentioned that's also based on Cockpit, which is a Fedora project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3131,"endTime":3136.9,"body":"Yeah, no, and I actually went through and did an OpenSUSE installation like a couple weeks ago with it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3137.62,"endTime":3138.22,"body":"Oh, my gosh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3138.41,"endTime":3140.2,"body":"They are rapidly evolving that thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3140.85,"endTime":3142.72,"body":"It changed so much in six months."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3143.14,"endTime":3144.86,"body":"Six months ago, you couldn't create a user."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3145.44,"endTime":3146.02,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3146.25,"endTime":3147.52,"body":"So I also watched..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3147.56,"endTime":3153.58,"body":"Now you can do the full workflow from user configuration to encrypted disk setup and all this other stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3153.76,"endTime":3155.18,"body":"It does everything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3155.74,"endTime":3155.82,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3155.98,"endTime":3156.88,"body":"And it's great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3157.24,"endTime":3158.76,"body":"It's a good user experience."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3159.44,"endTime":3166.16,"body":"And I'm really pleased to see how seriously they're making the front door experience very good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3166.66,"endTime":3167.12,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3167.3,"endTime":3170.66,"body":"It's a good-looking interface that works on every kind of device you can think of."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3170.66,"endTime":3175.7,"body":"You can even use your tablet in the data center to spin up a new machine if you want to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3175.88,"endTime":3176.28,"body":"That's okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3176.34,"endTime":3177.3,"body":"You don't need VNC."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3177.38,"endTime":3178.48,"body":"You have a proper web interface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3180.02,"endTime":3182.9,"body":"And I'm really happy about that with combustion,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3183.12,"endTime":3186.5,"body":"I have an easier way to install systems in an automated way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3186.98,"endTime":3188.86,"body":"And I do not need to deal with auto-yast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3189.94,"endTime":3190.18,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3190.58,"endTime":3191.48,"body":"I'm good with that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3191.62,"endTime":3192.38,"body":"I'm good with not..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3192.82,"endTime":3195.88,"body":"I mean, me personally, I've always been a kickstart kind of guy,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3196,"endTime":3197.58,"body":"but I learned how to do Auto-Yast as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3198.7,"endTime":3200.88,"body":"Auto-Yast was the definition of too powerful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3201.44,"endTime":3201.68,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3202.26,"endTime":3205.38,"body":"And oh my gosh, even I, as good as I am with the stuff,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3205.5,"endTime":3207.72,"body":"I have screwed up my Auto-Yast before."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3208.5,"endTime":3211.52,"body":"And you can't even really do the strategy that I typically do with Kickstart,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3211.66,"endTime":3213.46,"body":"which is do the deploy once by hand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3213.8,"endTime":3214.86,"body":"Yeah, and then copy over."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3215.08,"endTime":3218.78,"body":"Take the generated Kickstart and then just tweak it a little bit for mass deployment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3219.36,"endTime":3220.9,"body":"No, with Auto-Yast, it's not that simple."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3221.26,"endTime":3224.939,"body":"You need to delete like 60 to 70% of the XML document"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3224.96,"endTime":3227.12,"body":"because it has just everything included."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3227.12,"endTime":3228.62,"body":"It has all the details."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3230.08,"endTime":3233.72,"body":"Yeah, so that's not that easy to get started with."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3234.2,"endTime":3236.58,"body":"And another benefit of the new code base"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3236.76,"endTime":3239.4,"body":"is that you get SE Linux instead of AppArmor by default."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3239.74,"endTime":3241.24,"body":"I am super stoked about that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3241.42,"endTime":3243.18,"body":"I am a big SE Linux fan."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3243.62,"endTime":3247.82,"body":"Actually, I helped make SE Linux work in OpenSUSE four years ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3249.42,"endTime":3250.72,"body":"Actually, it's now five years ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3251,"endTime":3251.56,"body":"Wow, time flies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3251.94,"endTime":3257.2,"body":"But in 2020, I helped bring SC Linux to OpenSUSE and make it work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3257.59,"endTime":3263.18,"body":"I worked with Johanna Sagits and the SUSE security team to get the little tweaks here and there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3263.28,"endTime":3265.22,"body":"Connected them up with the Fedora SC Linux maintainers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3265.22,"endTime":3271.12,"body":"Because the Fedora SC Linux policy is the upstream for our policy here in OpenSUSE and SUSE distributions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3271.92,"endTime":3275.1,"body":"And I worked with him to do all the tweaks and stuff like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3275.16,"endTime":3281.64,"body":"And I have been running all of my OpenSUSE systems with SE Linux since, I don't know, what is it, June of 2020?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3282.4,"endTime":3282.76,"body":"Continuously."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3282.9,"endTime":3283.2,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3283.2,"endTime":3284.14,"body":"No AppArmor at all."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3284.64,"endTime":3287.4,"body":"I've been super pleased with the performance and things just work great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3288.9,"endTime":3291.62,"body":"Totally makes sense from a security perspective to..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3291.73,"endTime":3292.04,"body":"Well, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3292.19,"endTime":3299.78,"body":"And when I was working at an Ubuntu shop a couple of jobs ago, I always advocated for, like, we should move away from AppArmor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3299.82,"endTime":3303.64,"body":"because when we were starting to get into containerized workloads"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3303.96,"endTime":3304.68,"body":"and using Kubernetes,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3306.16,"endTime":3308.86,"body":"and we were starting to need the requirements"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3309.26,"endTime":3313.32,"body":"of having to be able to partition access and things like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3313.32,"endTime":3315.12,"body":"And you really could only do that with SC Linux."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3316.94,"endTime":3318.86,"body":"And yeah, it was..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3320.62,"endTime":3323.5,"body":"Yes, it's a lot more than what AppArmor is,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3323.7,"endTime":3325.06,"body":"and it is definitely more complicated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3325.84,"endTime":3329.079,"body":"But there's also plenty of literature and tutorials and videos"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3329.7,"endTime":3331.2,"body":"like it's been part of the Red Hat ecosystem"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3331.62,"endTime":3333.04,"body":"for almost 20 years now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3333.42,"endTime":3333.68,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3333.96,"endTime":3336.3,"body":"And like you can find YouTube tutorials"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3336.54,"endTime":3338.02,"body":"about how to make your own policies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3338.66,"endTime":3340.92,"body":"You can find some documentation from Red Hat."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3340.96,"endTime":3343.86,"body":"And I assume SUSE is working on their own versions of this,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3344.48,"endTime":3348.74,"body":"you know, as we get closer to SUSE Linux 16 being released."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3350.38,"endTime":3352.42,"body":"And yeah, I'm very excited."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3352.5,"endTime":3355.34,"body":"I think that this has been a long time coming."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3356,"endTime":3356.16,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3356.42,"endTime":3358.36,"body":"And I mean, things are way easier now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3358.54,"endTime":3362.32,"body":"So I started with ASL Linux back then when RHEL 6 was released."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3362.56,"endTime":3363.02,"body":"Oh, man."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3363.08,"endTime":3363.88,"body":"And there were a lot of..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3363.88,"endTime":3364.38,"body":"It was rough."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3364.64,"endTime":3366.86,"body":"It was rough because a lot of policies were missing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3366.98,"endTime":3373.24,"body":"And today, you even have pre-built policies for things like very niche monitoring agents and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3373.66,"endTime":3376.62,"body":"So they went down the whole road and it's all upstream."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3377.66,"endTime":3380.96,"body":"So other distributions like SUSE can catch up and add their content."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3381.48,"endTime":3381.66,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3381.94,"endTime":3386.4,"body":"And yeah, it might be a little bit harder to get into, but it's way easier these days."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3386.78,"endTime":3389.68,"body":"And from a security perspective, AppArmor has a different focus."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3389.75,"endTime":3392.68,"body":"It was focused on desktops and later IoT things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3393.08,"endTime":3395.38,"body":"And SA Linux is for all the Linux systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3395.66,"endTime":3399.12,"body":"And by default, everything that's not allowed is disabled."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3399.43,"endTime":3399.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3399.98,"endTime":3401.44,"body":"Where AppArmor is quite the opposite."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3401.94,"endTime":3406.6,"body":"Because it was made for a simplified interaction model"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3406.82,"endTime":3409.82,"body":"where the main thing you had to do was just block access to files."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3410.28,"endTime":3410.4,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3410.74,"endTime":3414.02,"body":"Whereas it's a lot more complicated now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3414.15,"endTime":3415.68,"body":"You need to deal with services."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3416,"endTime":3419.56,"body":"You have to deal with interfaces, network, all this stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3420.26,"endTime":3422.82,"body":"And those controls are hard to do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3424.28,"endTime":3426.52,"body":"I mean, I've found them difficult to do in AppArmor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3427.16,"endTime":3429.6,"body":"Of course, I'm not going to claim to be an AppArmor expert,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3429.94,"endTime":3434.2,"body":"but I found it much easier to do all these things in SC Linux than in AppArmor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3435.08,"endTime":3435.32,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3436.54,"endTime":3439.46,"body":"So one of the last highlights is that, of course,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3439.5,"endTime":3441.12,"body":"a migration tool is already in the works,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3441.36,"endTime":3444.2,"body":"but we have a new feature called Repository Index Service."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3444.9,"endTime":3449.56,"body":"So we have a new Zipper version that does parallel downloads by default to speed up things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3450.38,"endTime":3451.04,"body":"That's a game changer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3451.92,"endTime":3456.46,"body":"Yeah, we've had that in DNF for a while, so finally nice to see that on the OpenSUSE side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3456.7,"endTime":3457.3,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3457.47,"endTime":3462.94,"body":"So I think this will speed up things heavily, and this will also result in fewer repositories"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3463.15,"endTime":3466,"body":"because we do not have dedicated update repositories anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3466.38,"endTime":3468.34,"body":"That part might actually be annoying."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3468.84,"endTime":3469.34,"body":"Yeah, really?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3469.92,"endTime":3475.12,"body":"So if you think about how provisioning systems tends to work, right,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3475.66,"endTime":3480.88,"body":"you want to be able to choose whether you want to start from the static starting point"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3481.56,"endTime":3485.52,"body":"or you want to start from the point with the updates applied or things like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3485.82,"endTime":3486.22,"body":"You're right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3486.22,"endTime":3488.76,"body":"It becomes very difficult when you don't have those anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3488.92,"endTime":3491.66,"body":"Actually, Red Hat did the same thing with RHEL 8 onward."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3492.02,"endTime":3495.24,"body":"They were just like, yeah, no more base repos."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3495.76,"endTime":3501.72,"body":"And most people cheered, but it was like, oh, well, so now how do I like checkpoint my things?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3502.24,"endTime":3505.46,"body":"Well, it's make a local mirror and keep snapshots of your mirror."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3505.8,"endTime":3508.88,"body":"Oh, we have this Red Hat satellite product that does this for you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3509.08,"endTime":3510.12,"body":"So, you know, go buy this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3510.6,"endTime":3511.8,"body":"It's like, oh, I see."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3512.08,"endTime":3513.52,"body":"This is what you really want us to do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3514.98,"endTime":3515.18,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3515.48,"endTime":3515.6,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3516.14,"endTime":3516.74,"body":"Interesting point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3516.9,"endTime":3518.68,"body":"I didn't keep that in mind."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3519.64,"endTime":3523.14,"body":"But I think another benefit is splitting the repo data by architecture."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3523.28,"endTime":3527.08,"body":"So you do not have those big repo data archives anymore, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3527.08,"endTime":3529.2,"body":"That wasn't specifically an RIS thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3529.28,"endTime":3530.6,"body":"That was something we could have always done."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3531.66,"endTime":3533.6,"body":"I never really understood why."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3534.3,"endTime":3535.62,"body":"Well, okay, I kind of understand why,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3535.78,"endTime":3537.2,"body":"because I used to run an OBS instance,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3537.4,"endTime":3541.42,"body":"so I know how OBS itself cannot produce per-architecture repos."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3542.18,"endTime":3545.12,"body":"It produces these big unified repos,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3545.26,"endTime":3548.54,"body":"and they just didn't do any work to change that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3549.06,"endTime":3553.5,"body":"But like in Fedora Land, Koji kind of does the same thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3554.08,"endTime":3560.26,"body":"And when we do the composers, as we call it, where we take all the content and then make repositories for it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3560.58,"endTime":3566.4,"body":"the tool that we use, Pungi, takes all those and generates per-architecture repos with all the content."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3566.94,"endTime":3570.8,"body":"The reason we do this is because it reduces the repo data size to something reasonable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3571.52,"endTime":3575.36,"body":"And also, it means that people can choose to mirror only the stuff that they need."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3575.72,"endTime":3578.84,"body":"So no ARM power system Z."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3579.2,"endTime":3580.02,"body":"If you don't need it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3580.04,"endTime":3580.3,"body":"Itanium."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3582.8,"endTime":3585.78,"body":"If you don't need those architectures, you shouldn't need to have to pull them down."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3586.08,"endTime":3586.32,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3586.92,"endTime":3592.58,"body":"And like, I never understood why this was not a similar optimization to do in OpenSUSE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3592.72,"endTime":3598.22,"body":"Because I think it actually has had the side effect of people not wanting to add more packages to the core distribution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3599,"endTime":3600.32,"body":"Because it's costly and painful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3600.67,"endTime":3601.02,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3601.08,"endTime":3613.66,"body":"And like this split means that now we have all this feedback, which means we have all this capacity back to like people should be putting the packages that they use and test and rely on into factory so that it gets regularly tested."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3613.81,"endTime":3619.4,"body":"And now that excuse is gone of like, oh, yeah, well, everything gets too slow because there's too many packages in factory."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3619.56,"endTime":3628,"body":"It's like, well, well, we just got back three quarters of our repo parsing capacity because we just dropped all these architectures from the from the repo."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3628.82,"endTime":3630.94,"body":"And now they're all per architecture repos."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3631.54,"endTime":3642.28,"body":"So that's something that I think is going to wind up paying off more in terms of making it friendlier to have more stuff be in the distribution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3643.26,"endTime":3643.82,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3645.16,"endTime":3650.32,"body":"So the last thing I would like to talk about is that fancy device that's sitting in front of you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3650.92,"endTime":3652.14,"body":"That's very colorful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3652.78,"endTime":3658.38,"body":"So maybe you want to tell our listeners what exactly the device is that you are carrying around these days."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3659,"endTime":3662.92,"body":"So I have a Framework 12."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3663.8,"endTime":3669.96,"body":"And this machine is actually probably the best travel computer I've ever used."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3670.28,"endTime":3670.66,"body":"Oh, wow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3672.58,"endTime":3677,"body":"So I explicitly was looking for a computer that I could use as a travel device."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3677.7,"endTime":3682.04,"body":"I didn't need it to be super souped up because I can just shell back into my home computer and do everything there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3683.08,"endTime":3688.28,"body":"But I needed it to fit in the trays on the trains and the planes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3689.26,"endTime":3691.44,"body":"That's a very limited amount of size."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3691.76,"endTime":3691.88,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3692.32,"endTime":3693.94,"body":"So that was a big constraint factor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3694.48,"endTime":3697.74,"body":"But I also needed it to be useful for when I wanted to watch multimedia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3699.24,"endTime":3704.48,"body":"One of the nice things about this Framework 12 is I can just fold it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3704.64,"endTime":3706.62,"body":"It's a 360, two-in-one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3707.16,"endTime":3711.34,"body":"So I can fold it and use it tentpole style."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3712.3,"endTime":3714.64,"body":"All those thumping sounds is me actually just moving the computer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3714.86,"endTime":3716.44,"body":"And it has a touchscreen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3718.78,"endTime":3719.36,"body":"That's slowly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3720.04,"endTime":3722.4,"body":"And the touchscreen works, and I also have a pen that works with it too."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3722.55,"endTime":3725.66,"body":"So it supports the Surface pens as well as the Chromebook pens"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3726,"endTime":3728.12,"body":"and as the Fire tablet pens and all the other pens."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3728.62,"endTime":3728.84,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3729.24,"endTime":3734.28,"body":"So I bought a Fire tablet pen because it was like $13, $15"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3734.55,"endTime":3735.8,"body":"for my local Best Buy store."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3736.46,"endTime":3738.44,"body":"For listeners who don't know what that is,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3738.6,"endTime":3742.5,"body":"Best Buy is a technology store that exists in many parts of the world."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3742.57,"endTime":3744.62,"body":"I actually don't know if Best Buy exists in Germany, does it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3744.68,"endTime":3749.58,"body":"No, but we have other kind of stores that do the same."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3749.65,"endTime":3752.1,"body":"I know Best Buy used to exist in Germany a long time ago,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3752.26,"endTime":3753.12,"body":"but I don't think they do now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3754.48,"endTime":3756.34,"body":"But, like, yeah, there's, like, a Best Buy,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3756.47,"endTime":3757.44,"body":"like, a block and a half from my house."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3757.53,"endTime":3759.48,"body":"I could just go walk to it, and then I went and bought the pen"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3759.58,"endTime":3760.84,"body":"and then can just use it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3761.16,"endTime":3761.6,"body":"That's fine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3761.82,"endTime":3764,"body":"And, yeah, and, like, they're going to come out"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3764.08,"endTime":3766.099,"body":"with their own branded pens, which I'll definitely pick one up"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3766.12,"endTime":3769.02,"body":"because then it's much better to have one that's, like, warrantied and whatever."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3769.5,"endTime":3771.3,"body":"This pen was made for a fire tablet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3771.43,"endTime":3774,"body":"I don't think they actually expected me to use it with a real computer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3775.16,"endTime":3776.3,"body":"But it works."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3776.74,"endTime":3785.34,"body":"And as far as the build quality goes, it's US mil 810G standard spec,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3785.49,"endTime":3789.78,"body":"which is basically, if you're familiar with Panasonic Toughbooks or Fujitsu Lifebooks,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3790.38,"endTime":3791.48,"body":"they're built to the same spec."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3791.96,"endTime":3797.7,"body":"And so they handled being drops and shock very well, just like those computers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3798.84,"endTime":3807.88,"body":"And the idea is that this was actually made to be able to, for kids, to be something better than a Chromebook with real Linux on it that they can use."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3808.12,"endTime":3811.88,"body":"And they can take apart and upgrade and learn about computers and stuff like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3812.22,"endTime":3817,"body":"And so it's made super easy to assemble and disassemble, super easy to upgrade."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3817.36,"endTime":3818.42,"body":"There's no ribbon cables."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3818.62,"endTime":3820.08,"body":"It's Pogo pins all the way through."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3820.4,"endTime":3820.98,"body":"Oh, that's good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3821.48,"endTime":3823.74,"body":"And, yeah, and colorful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3824.38,"endTime":3826.32,"body":"Because you've got to have fun in your life."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3827.56,"endTime":3831.34,"body":"Like, this one's bubblegum, so it's got, like, this pale, pinkish color."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3831.88,"endTime":3832.92,"body":"Pink and cyan blue."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3833.38,"endTime":3839.3,"body":"And what I really like about that, besides that it's very colorful and makes happy feelings when I have a look at it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3839.38,"endTime":3840.76,"body":"Yes, the happy feelings are important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3840.98,"endTime":3847.84,"body":"Yeah, if you have a look at the ports, for example, the Kensington lock, then the inside of the port has a different color than the outside."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3848.1,"endTime":3850.32,"body":"So they even painted the inside of the ports."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3850.66,"endTime":3851.5,"body":"That's a statement."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3852,"endTime":3855.1,"body":"Yes, they made sure that they got all the details right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3855.36,"endTime":3858.9,"body":"And the fun part is, because this is a framework computer,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3858.96,"endTime":3861.04,"body":"I can pop the ports out and replace them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3861.52,"endTime":3863.64,"body":"And the reason that this is important to me is because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3864.4,"endTime":3866.34,"body":"this is actually the, you know, for this past month,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3866.38,"endTime":3868.26,"body":"I've been traveling with this across, like, I don't know,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3868.28,"endTime":3869.86,"body":"what is it, four or five conferences now?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3871.12,"endTime":3873.04,"body":"Because I actually started taking with me to the Red Hat Summit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3873.26,"endTime":3876.72,"body":"So that's when I, like, we didn't have too much of a chance to talk,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3876.76,"endTime":3878.9,"body":"but, like, I did have this computer with me at Red Hat Summit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3879.12,"endTime":3879.34,"body":"Lovely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3880.86,"endTime":3883.02,"body":"the important thing to me was that when I was at"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3883.36,"endTime":3884.62,"body":"CentOS Connect way back in February"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3885.22,"endTime":3886.84,"body":"I had my Lenovo laptop with me"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3887.02,"endTime":3888.88,"body":"and I discovered when I tried to plug it in to do my"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3889.18,"endTime":3890.64,"body":"presentation that the HDMI port stopped working"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3891.02,"endTime":3893.1,"body":"and the USB-C port next to it didn't work"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3893.21,"endTime":3895.08,"body":"either so I had to go"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3895.23,"endTime":3896.28,"body":"borrow someone else's computer"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3897.22,"endTime":3898.36,"body":"because the ports were dead"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3898.76,"endTime":3900.74,"body":"and what I like about this is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3901.18,"endTime":3903.14,"body":"okay this is a little pricey for a travel computer"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3903.3,"endTime":3904.92,"body":"because it's on the high side"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3904.92,"endTime":3906.4,"body":"for a low end for a mid-ranger"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3906.66,"endTime":3908.359,"body":"so it's starting at $5.49"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3908.38,"endTime":3910.16,"body":"and 5.69 euros."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3910.58,"endTime":3910.7,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3911.12,"endTime":3916.38,"body":"But that's the 13th Intel Core i3."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3916.48,"endTime":3917.52,"body":"I3, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3917.7,"endTime":3919.72,"body":"And yeah, so if you max it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3919.86,"endTime":3921.08,"body":"with the maximum of memory,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3921.22,"endTime":3921.96,"body":"I had a look at it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3922.06,"endTime":3923.32,"body":"the maximum is an i5."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3923.64,"endTime":3923.7,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3923.94,"endTime":3925.38,"body":"You can get up to 48 gigs"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3925.42,"endTime":3926.5,"body":"of DDR5 memory"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3926.96,"endTime":3928.16,"body":"and you can get an SSD,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3928.3,"endTime":3929.44,"body":"then you will end up"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3929.6,"endTime":3931.98,"body":"something around 1,000, 1,100 bucks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3932.02,"endTime":3933.14,"body":"I wound up specking out"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3933.24,"endTime":3934.66,"body":"about 700 US dollars."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3934.96,"endTime":3935.36,"body":"That's okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3936,"endTime":3936.6,"body":"And that's fine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3937,"endTime":3938.34,"body":"And that's with an i5"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3938.46,"endTime":3940.24,"body":"and that was with me buying from a third party."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3940.39,"endTime":3944.2,"body":"I bought 32 gigs of RAM and 2 terabytes of NVMe storage."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3945.26,"endTime":3947.66,"body":"That works out pretty reasonably for this kind of thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3948.56,"endTime":3951.38,"body":"This laptop, I am impressed it works as well as it does"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3951.39,"endTime":3952.82,"body":"because it's only got 8 gigs of RAM."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3953.11,"endTime":3953.8,"body":"Oh, really? Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3954.12,"endTime":3955.88,"body":"And only 250 gigs of storage."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3956.5,"endTime":3957.22,"body":"That's not a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3957.34,"endTime":3958.06,"body":"It's not a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3959.02,"endTime":3962.4,"body":"But it actually performs pretty well for having so little."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3964.34,"endTime":3966.62,"body":"The battery lifetime that I've had with this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3966.84,"endTime":3967.78,"body":"has actually been fairly good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3967.84,"endTime":3971.08,"body":"I've been able to do like a whole conference day with it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3971.17,"endTime":3972.62,"body":"When I was at Red Hat Summit every day,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3972.92,"endTime":3974.94,"body":"and that was a four-day conference thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3975.54,"endTime":3978.58,"body":"Each day it was like I get there at like 8:00 AM"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3978.94,"endTime":3981.92,"body":"and then leave at 7:00 PM."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3982.92,"endTime":3984.54,"body":"The laptop lasted through the whole day."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3984.69,"endTime":3985.3,"body":"That was a nuts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3985.95,"endTime":3987.36,"body":"I mean, again, I'm doing light tasks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3987.47,"endTime":3989.28,"body":"I'm taking notes and I'm looking up web pages."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3989.31,"endTime":3990.36,"body":"I'm not doing anything intense."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3991.02,"endTime":3992.94,"body":"But for what I wanted it to do, that was fantastic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3993.84,"endTime":3999.8,"body":"I did watch some Netflix on it on a train ride."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4000.94,"endTime":4001.66,"body":"No, on a train."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4002.28,"endTime":4003.26,"body":"Yes, on a train ride."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4003.66,"endTime":4005.94,"body":"Because when I came down from Prague to Brno, I was on a train."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4006.34,"endTime":4009.2,"body":"And I watched it on a train ride, and it lasted about three, four hours."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4010,"endTime":4013.64,"body":"Three, four hours with video is not too shabby."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4014.16,"endTime":4018.8,"body":"Because it's Intel, we have easy access to hardware accelerated all the things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4019.36,"endTime":4022.6,"body":"So, I mean, yes, it's still a wimp, but it's enough."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4023.32,"endTime":4024.8,"body":"So it actually worked out pretty well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4024.9,"endTime":4025.86,"body":"And it's very light."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4025.98,"endTime":4027.56,"body":"I mean, it's 1.3 kilograms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4028.78,"endTime":4031.76,"body":"So my requirement of being under two pounds was satisfied."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4032.56,"endTime":4032.7,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4033.9,"endTime":4034.94,"body":"Maybe to add some more detail."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4035.18,"endTime":4037.76,"body":"So we have a battery with 50 watt hours."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4038.2,"endTime":4039.04,"body":"And we have five colors."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4039.22,"endTime":4043.84,"body":"So if you do not like bubble gum, which I wouldn't understand because it's really lovely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4044.12,"endTime":4046.44,"body":"So I can understand why people would think that they wouldn't like it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4046.52,"endTime":4050.56,"body":"Because on the website, when I was looking at it from my home computer, I didn't think it looked good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4050.84,"endTime":4057.7,"body":"And I think it's just like, depending on how your monitor or your screen does it, because Framework's not in any retail store, so you can't go easily see for yourself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4057.92,"endTime":4058.3,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4058.34,"endTime":4063.18,"body":"But I can tell you, looking at this, and Christian here is seeing it too, it looks great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4063.58,"endTime":4065.74,"body":"It actually, like, I've been pleasantly surprised."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4066.04,"endTime":4070.98,"body":"It is, and we will also put a picture in the chapter mark so that you can see how lovely it looks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4071.34,"endTime":4071.52,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4071.74,"endTime":4073.3,"body":"Because it looks way different on the website."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4073.6,"endTime":4077.3,"body":"It looks more childish maybe on the website, but it really looks decent."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4077.76,"endTime":4079.5,"body":"It looks really washed out on the website."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4079.8,"endTime":4080.84,"body":"And I think that's the thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4080.98,"endTime":4085.78,"body":"It looked like it was, you know, that pale pink paint that they sell in the stores?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4086.06,"endTime":4086.82,"body":"That's what it looks like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4087.31,"endTime":4089.24,"body":"And that's actually not what the computer looks like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4089.66,"endTime":4090.02,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4090.6,"endTime":4090.68,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4092.2,"endTime":4095.78,"body":"So, besides that, we also have lavender, sage, gray, and black."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4095.85,"endTime":4099.66,"body":"If you want to use different colors, we have YP6E."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4100.319,"endTime":4104.38,"body":"The cool thing about the lavender one, though, is that you can also get the keyboard block in lavender."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4104.509,"endTime":4105.54,"body":"Oh, that's great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4105.859,"endTime":4110.4,"body":"So if you do the lavender configuration, you can also get the trackpad and keys in lavender."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4111.64,"endTime":4116.38,"body":"Speaking of the keyboards, I would like to hear your thoughts on the keyboard has one disadvantage."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4117,"endTime":4118.279,"body":"It's missing a backlight."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4118.88,"endTime":4119.859,"body":"How do you deal with that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4120.799,"endTime":4121.759,"body":"I get very sad."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4121.98,"endTime":4122.799,"body":"I get very sad."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4124.18,"endTime":4127.92,"body":"So to be honest, I am used to not having a backlight on my keyboards."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4128.299,"endTime":4132.839,"body":"I've only recently had backlights on my laptop keyboards, and I definitely like having it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4134.22,"endTime":4135.68,"body":"It is definitely a downer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4136.02,"endTime":4138.74,"body":"I would very much prefer having a backlight,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4139.04,"endTime":4141.799,"body":"especially since I'm typing on this computer that I have,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4142.2,"endTime":4143.54,"body":"has a British keyboard layout,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4144.12,"endTime":4146.92,"body":"which is awful because I don't normally type on these layouts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4147.6,"endTime":4149.56,"body":"And because I can't see the keys in the dark,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4150.319,"endTime":4151.6,"body":"I mistype more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4152.24,"endTime":4153.38,"body":"And I can't really get used to it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4153.48,"endTime":4155.18,"body":"because all the other keyboards I have at home"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4155.339,"endTime":4159.12,"body":"are the US ANSI or the ANSI International layouts,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4159.72,"endTime":4160.859,"body":"which are not this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4161.4,"endTime":4164.299,"body":"So your personal one is going to have an ANSI layout, I guess."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4164.6,"endTime":4167.24,"body":"So maybe framework could simply add a backlight."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4167.31,"endTime":4169.14,"body":"I think it's not that hard to edit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4169.48,"endTime":4172.08,"body":"Well, they could make a next generation of the keyboard part."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4172.2,"endTime":4172.38,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4172.759,"endTime":4173.799,"body":"And do a backlight."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4174.12,"endTime":4176,"body":"And again, that comes back to the core advantage of this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4176.58,"endTime":4177.56,"body":"This thing is upgradable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4177.96,"endTime":4178.08,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4178.49,"endTime":4179.98,"body":"Without any hassle, it's easy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4180.08,"endTime":4185.04,"body":"There are videos and you can just scan the QR code of the component and then you see how to deal with it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4185.16,"endTime":4188.74,"body":"Or maybe they could also add a sync light if they don't want to have a backlight keyboard."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4189.17,"endTime":4190.14,"body":"That would also be fine for me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4191.299,"endTime":4192.24,"body":"I don't want to go back to that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4192.41,"endTime":4193.54,"body":"I remember those things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4193.819,"endTime":4198.56,"body":"I mean, like my Game Boy Advance SP had one of those, and it was really, it was not pleasant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4199.18,"endTime":4200.48,"body":"Definitely not, definitely not."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4200.49,"endTime":4201.48,"body":"So what's running on your unit?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4201.7,"endTime":4203.34,"body":"I think maybe Fedora as far as?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4203.44,"endTime":4203.64,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4203.75,"endTime":4207.7,"body":"So I've got Fedora KD Plasma Desktop Edition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4208.15,"endTime":4212.78,"body":"So Fedora 42, first release with KD Plasma as a top-level edition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4213.18,"endTime":4216.8,"body":"We are a default variant, just like the workstation with GNOME."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4217.14,"endTime":4220.34,"body":"And I've got mine, you know, with a few tweaks here and there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4221.6,"endTime":4227.84,"body":"I think if you can see my heritage of computing use based on how I have the computer set up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4228.86,"endTime":4231.44,"body":"So I've got the launcher here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4232.22,"endTime":4237.18,"body":"And I've customized my KD Plasma desktop to have like a little panel dock at the bottom."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4237.46,"endTime":4240.44,"body":"I have a global menu at the top with the notification tray in the top right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4240.7,"endTime":4241.42,"body":"Very clean desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4241.7,"endTime":4241.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4242.1,"endTime":4247.56,"body":"Well, it turns out to be surprisingly good for a laptop screen, especially one that's 16 by 10."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4247.94,"endTime":4248.16,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4248.44,"endTime":4251.6,"body":"So this is a 1920 by 1200, 16 by 10 display."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4251.9,"endTime":4255.8,"body":"So I have pixel space that I can just put to use that way"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4256.22,"endTime":4258.8,"body":"and still not really lose any real estate to applications."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4259.48,"endTime":4259.88,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4260.53,"endTime":4260.94,"body":"Very nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4264.28,"endTime":4266.64,"body":"So I would like to wrap up the episode maybe with tool tips"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4266.84,"endTime":4268.2,"body":"as we usually do for all our episodes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4268.64,"endTime":4268.94,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4269.22,"endTime":4271.38,"body":"And maybe you have one of your favorite tools"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4271.6,"endTime":4274.2,"body":"or your favorite applications that you want to share with our listeners."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4274.84,"endTime":4277.48,"body":"So the tried response would be, of course, KD Plasma Desktop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4277.76,"endTime":4278.6,"body":"Of course it is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4278.83,"endTime":4282.24,"body":"But the real answer, actually, I think these past few weeks,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4282.4,"endTime":4286.86,"body":"I've started to rely a lot on KATE as my editor of choice for development."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4287.48,"endTime":4292.32,"body":"KATE is like VS Code without the Electron and actually native and smart."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4292.82,"endTime":4294.1,"body":"Because it has LSP support."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4294.19,"endTime":4295.16,"body":"It has smart highlights."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4295.31,"endTime":4295.9,"body":"It has modal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4296.52,"endTime":4299.32,"body":"It has the ability to do Vim or Emacs bindings and modality"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4299.52,"endTime":4300.6,"body":"and all this other fun stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4301.1,"endTime":4303.82,"body":"It's a plug-in architecture because it's actually built on top of K-Write."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4304.38,"endTime":4306.88,"body":"And it itself is the basis for K-Develop, the IDE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4307.38,"endTime":4308.52,"body":"Oh, I didn't know that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4308.84,"endTime":4313.68,"body":"Yeah, so there's this nice progression of enhancements and functionality."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4313.9,"endTime":4319.32,"body":"And I use Kate now for doing development because I can set it up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4319.54,"endTime":4321.98,"body":"It has source control integration and stuff like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4322.32,"endTime":4325.26,"body":"I can have a little terminal at the bottom to run commands I need to do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4325.84,"endTime":4329.48,"body":"And I can attach a debugger easily and get those things in there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4331.24,"endTime":4334.56,"body":"Now, if I need a true ID, I'll reach for kdevelop or cute creator,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4334.8,"endTime":4335.78,"body":"depending on what I'm working on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4336.46,"endTime":4339.4,"body":"But like most of the time, I'm actually pretty happy with using KDE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4340.48,"endTime":4342.8,"body":"Well, I haven't seen KDE in quite some time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4342.87,"endTime":4346.3,"body":"I just had a look at the website that we are going to link in the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4346.68,"endTime":4351.7,"body":"And back then when I was using KDE for the last time, I think it was KDE 3.5."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4352.08,"endTime":4353.24,"body":"That was a long time ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4353.36,"endTime":4357.62,"body":"And it was a really minimalistic editor and it looks like a fully fledged IDE."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4358.58,"endTime":4358.9,"body":"Well, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4358.97,"endTime":4361.08,"body":"So it's basically a programmer editor at this point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4361.19,"endTime":4362.38,"body":"So it kind of falls the same."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4362.44,"endTime":4370.14,"body":"So I historically was an Emacs guy because I started from MS-DOS editor in DOS and kind of progressed and used DJGPP."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4370.78,"endTime":4377.72,"body":"And that was actually my first experience exposure to open source was DJGPP with DOS, GCC, and Emacs and all that other stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4377.88,"endTime":4378,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4378.26,"endTime":4380.56,"body":"And then I progressed from there into eventually using Linux."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4380.72,"endTime":4382.5,"body":"And I kept using Emacs for a long time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4382.98,"endTime":4384.52,"body":"And then I got into graphical stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4384.64,"endTime":4386.72,"body":"And then now for quick edits in the terminal, I use Nano."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4387.4,"endTime":4388.38,"body":"Sometimes I'll use Emacs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4388.42,"endTime":4394.48,"body":"But like when I'm at my desktop and doing stuff, I just use Kate all the time because it works for even the simple and the big stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4395.74,"endTime":4395.94,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4396.62,"endTime":4398.6,"body":"So we'll find links to that in the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4399.26,"endTime":4404.04,"body":"And the tooltip that I bring to the table is actually something that I just learned about yesterday."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4404.82,"endTime":4407.9,"body":"And that's PyTest Container, developed by Dan Cermak."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4408.18,"endTime":4413.02,"body":"And that's, as you might have already guessed, it's an extension to PyTest, a testing framework written in Python."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4413.46,"endTime":4417.64,"body":"And it allows you to automatically pull, build, launch, and clean up containers, parts, and volumes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4418.06,"endTime":4421.58,"body":"So it works with Docker, but all the features are only available in Potman."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4422.22,"endTime":4424.54,"body":"And it's very useful for developing and testing at scale,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4425.34,"endTime":4427.72,"body":"especially in combination with PyTest X-Dist."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4427.72,"endTime":4430.34,"body":"And there's also one of my favorite PyTest plugins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4430.52,"endTime":4431.66,"body":"Did you heard about that one?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4431.78,"endTime":4433.12,"body":"Yeah, no, that one's great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4433.52,"endTime":4434.74,"body":"That's a real game changer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4434.92,"endTime":4441.1,"body":"We use it in Kiwi as part of using PyTest to run our test as well,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4441.3,"endTime":4444.58,"body":"because I don't want to run PyTest without it, really,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4444.84,"endTime":4449.28,"body":"because it means that the tests have to run serially and slowly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4449.74,"endTime":4450.84,"body":"Like, X-DIS is great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4451.06,"endTime":4454.56,"body":"I want parallelization and also serialized output."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4455.04,"endTime":4455.36,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4455.6,"endTime":4458.06,"body":"Like, you want the parallelization without the confusing output,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4458.34,"endTime":4460.1,"body":"and that's what X-DIS does, and it's fantastic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4460.6,"endTime":4461,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4461.15,"endTime":4463.54,"body":"So I stumbled upon that plugin last year"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4463.7,"endTime":4466.62,"body":"when I did a presentation or a workshop at a conference,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4466.92,"endTime":4471.28,"body":"and I needed 150 VMs or 120 VMs for a short time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4471.88,"endTime":4475.02,"body":"So I used Terraform and Ansible to get them up and running."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4475.6,"endTime":4477.96,"body":"And then, of course, I was running unit tests against it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4478.07,"endTime":4480.68,"body":"And then I figured out it's going to take a long time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4480.85,"endTime":4483.86,"body":"It will take a very long time because it will reach into each machine one by one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4484.14,"endTime":4484.9,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4485.2,"endTime":4485.34,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4485.56,"endTime":4487.42,"body":"It's not serial like most of Python code."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4489.61,"endTime":4492.94,"body":"So I posted a screenshot of that on Mastodon."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4492.94,"endTime":4497.2,"body":"And one of my friends reached out to me and was like, sorry, are you dumb?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4497.64,"endTime":4499.26,"body":"Do you know that X just exists?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4499.8,"endTime":4501.64,"body":"I mean, if you'd asked me, I would have told you about X."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4501.78,"endTime":4503.74,"body":"Exodus because we've been using it in Kiwi for exactly"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4503.84,"endTime":4505.7,"body":"the same reason. Yeah, I did know that and now it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4505.84,"endTime":4507.82,"body":"part of all my developer installations"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4508.42,"endTime":4509.44,"body":"because it speeds up things"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4509.86,"endTime":4511.62,"body":"heavily. So all the tests running"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4511.88,"endTime":4513.6,"body":"manually took something around 50 minutes and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4513.7,"endTime":4515.46,"body":"with Exodus it was, I think, two minutes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4515.86,"endTime":4516.84,"body":"Exactly, that's what you want."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4518.66,"endTime":4519.66,"body":"My personal opinion"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4519.66,"endTime":4521.58,"body":"is that your developer experience sucks once you reach"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4521.58,"endTime":4523.38,"body":"the 10 minute boundary. Yeah, it is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4523.64,"endTime":4525.12,"body":"Your development experience is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4527.14,"endTime":4527.94,"body":"unequaled, unparalleled"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4527.98,"endTime":4529.6,"body":"in awfulness when you reach 15"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4529.9,"endTime":4531.74,"body":"minutes. And then at 20 minutes"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4531.76,"endTime":4532.7,"body":"No one wants to work on it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4532.94,"endTime":4533.16,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4533.7,"endTime":4538.14,"body":"It makes no fun working on a project that requires you to wait that long."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4539.62,"endTime":4540,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4540.3,"endTime":4540.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4540.8,"endTime":4542.26,"body":"So we'll also link that in the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4543,"endTime":4545.46,"body":"And with that, I think we wrapped up the conference."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4545.56,"endTime":4546.72,"body":"It was a pleasure talking to you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4547,"endTime":4548.92,"body":"Oh, it's always a pleasure to meet up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4548.96,"endTime":4550.52,"body":"And I'm glad to finally be on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4550.68,"endTime":4551.1,"body":"Finally, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4551.38,"endTime":4552.72,"body":"Although, you know, I'm sorry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4552.88,"endTime":4553.74,"body":"I don't know German."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4553.94,"endTime":4555.68,"body":"So this is in English."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4556.12,"endTime":4557.64,"body":"Yeah, that's absolutely no problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4557.84,"endTime":4563.12,"body":"That's basically the concept of our podcast, that for various special conferences and people,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4563.32,"endTime":4567.36,"body":"of course, we also record English episodes, and it was an honor having you on the show."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4567.6,"endTime":4569.94,"body":"Ah, well, you know, yeah, thanks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4570.88,"endTime":4575.98,"body":"In addition to doing the podcast and all this community stuff, I have my own business,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4576.2,"endTime":4579.96,"body":"Velocity Limit List, where I'm an open source mercenary."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4580.01,"endTime":4584.92,"body":"I do stuff, you know, if you want something interesting done that's based on either the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4584.92,"endTime":4589.8,"body":"RedHead or the SUSE platforms or you have something interesting or you need advice or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4589.98,"endTime":4592.32,"body":"assistance or any of that sort of stuff, I'm there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4593,"endTime":4596.14,"body":"Reach out and, you know, velocitylimitless.com."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4596.32,"endTime":4597.56,"body":"And I think you'll put in the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4597.74,"endTime":4597.92,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4598.06,"endTime":4601.82,"body":"We will link that in the show notes besides also your GitHub handle, the Sudo Show podcast"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4602.1,"endTime":4604.52,"body":"and all the utilities we were just talking about."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4604.92,"endTime":4605.08,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4605.9,"endTime":4605.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4606.18,"endTime":4606.84,"body":"And it's been wonderful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4606.98,"endTime":4610.68,"body":"It's a great way, you know, having this conversation is a great way to close out the event because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4610.74,"endTime":4613.76,"body":"I believe the event is now officially over."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4614.1,"endTime":4614.32,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4614.7,"endTime":4620.6,"body":"So we just were choosing the right time slot to do the wrap up before everything is closed here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4621.52,"endTime":4624.26,"body":"So dear listener, if you made it that far, thanks a lot for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4624.6,"endTime":4626.32,"body":"We're always interested in hearing your feedback."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4626.56,"endTime":4630.4,"body":"So in case you have any ideas, wishes or tooltips, feel free to reach out to us."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4630.48,"endTime":4633.22,"body":"You can leave a comment on the website below the episodes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4633.48,"endTime":4636.22,"body":"We have an email address, domian at user.space."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4636.82,"endTime":4640.42,"body":"We also have a fax number, but I'm not going to read that right now because I think..."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4640.42,"endTime":4642.08,"body":"I am so disappointed in you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4642.36,"endTime":4642.56,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4642.62,"endTime":4643.36,"body":"A fax number?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4643.76,"endTime":4644.34,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4644.94,"endTime":4649.8,"body":"I mean, it's a little joke because digitalization in Germany is always hard."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4650,"endTime":4651.28,"body":"Oh, yes, I've heard of this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4651.31,"endTime":4652.42,"body":"We have a lot of fax machines."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4652.71,"endTime":4656.4,"body":"And I'm also part of a different podcast that is called the Fax Informatica."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4656.86,"endTime":4658.6,"body":"And so you have to have a facsimile machine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4659,"endTime":4663.24,"body":"So, and the game between those two podcasts is having a fax number."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4663.63,"endTime":4670.46,"body":"So, and as you mentioned, okay, it's plus 49042141737109."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4670.66,"endTime":4672.2,"body":"Feel free to send a fax if you want to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4672.38,"endTime":4673.78,"body":"I think I'm never going to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4674.46,"endTime":4676.12,"body":"I don't have a fax machine"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4676.64,"endTime":4678.6,"body":"and I don't want to pay the money to do an electronic"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4678.84,"endTime":4680.64,"body":"fax to you. It is, but if you have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4680.64,"endTime":4682.62,"body":"a Fritz box, you can configure it in a way that it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4682.72,"endTime":4684.6,"body":"acts as a virtual fax gateway. Oh, interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4684.7,"endTime":4686.46,"body":"That's one of our listeners did in the last episode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4687.98,"endTime":4688.48,"body":"That's terrifying."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4689.7,"endTime":4690.56,"body":"So you got a fax"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4690.57,"endTime":4692.6,"body":"from a Fritz box. Exactly, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4693.82,"endTime":4694.54,"body":"So, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4694.74,"endTime":4696.46,"body":"if you prefer more modern ways,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4696.66,"endTime":4698.62,"body":"then of course you can also use Mastodon, which is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4698.74,"endTime":4700.48,"body":"at usersbeta at podcast.social"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4701.2,"endTime":4702.6,"body":"On Matrix, you can find us on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4702.6,"endTime":4703.58,"body":"matrix.org at"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4704.4,"endTime":4705.12,"body":"ULAPM userspace."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4705.55,"endTime":4706.08,"body":"And of course,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4706.26,"endTime":4706.88,"body":"we're also happy to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4707.06,"endTime":4707.9,"body":"see your ratings"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4708.12,"endTime":4708.8,"body":"in the podcatcher"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4708.87,"endTime":4709.34,"body":"of your choice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4709.86,"endTime":4710.3,"body":"And with that,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4710.64,"endTime":4711.38,"body":"we're closing the episode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4711.58,"endTime":4712.22,"body":"Thanks again, Neil."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4712.48,"endTime":4713.56,"body":"Ah, thank you, Christian."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4713.96,"endTime":4715.08,"body":"And thanks for listening"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4715.34,"endTime":4716.36,"body":"and see you the next time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4716.82,"endTime":4716.96,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4717.06,"endTime":4717.46,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4717.48,"endTime":4717.56,"body":"Bye."}]}